Popular Post AVFC_Hitz Posted January 17, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, PieFacE said: Okay, but hypothetically... We'll all be outed as openly gay ex Olympic fencers. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: They won't. The fear of being labelled enemies of the people and losing their seat is too much, regardless of whether the deal is objectionably horrible for the people. If there is a swing in public opinion, and it wouldn't take much. Then the remainers could well become the new majority . Politicians might then become emboldened to reject any deal offered . An internal crisis within the Tory Party might ensue, and then all bets are off. What a bloody mess this country is in . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 In layman's terms can anyone genuinely point me to a positive of leaving the EU? Not what we could do, or might do, but an actual fact? We're only at the start of the process but all I know is my US holidays have cost a lot more, petrol and food has begun to rise and even I (as a white male) have heard more public racism/xenophobia. If we're boiling it down to how it effects you and I - how has Brexit helped us so far? Whatever 'class' you consider youself, however rich or not you may be, whatever line of work you're in - can you please give me a little piece of positivity about how June's result has helped you. I have yet to see anything other than political talk that suggests how the public are going to be better off. Everything's going to cost more, holidays will be unaffordable, jobs will likely go, trade will struggle, imports will cost more but at least we won't have to live next to Johnny Foreigner... I just want ONE plus to leaving, in almost any argument I can see pluses and negatives to both sides of the debate, but what are the benefits to leaving really? It's so depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 17, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2017 33 minutes ago, PieFacE said: Okay, but hypothetically... May has made their decision for them. There will be a deal on the table, or nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 17, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 hours ago, TrentVilla said: Oh I don't know, I think if anyone can unify the country it could be May. Sadly the only issue they will be unified on is her. Given the choice I'd rather vote for James May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted January 17, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2017 20 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said: In layman's terms can anyone genuinely point me to a positive of leaving the EU? Not what we could do, or might do, but an actual fact? We're only at the start of the process but all I know is my US holidays have cost a lot more, petrol and food has begun to rise and even I (as a white male) have heard more public racism/xenophobia. If we're boiling it down to how it effects you and I - how has Brexit helped us so far? Whatever 'class' you consider youself, however rich or not you may be, whatever line of work you're in - can you please give me a little piece of positivity about how June's result has helped you. I have yet to see anything other than political talk that suggests how the public are going to be better off. Everything's going to cost more, holidays will be unaffordable, jobs will likely go, trade will struggle, imports will cost more but at least we won't have to live next to Johnny Foreigner... I just want ONE plus to leaving, in almost any argument I can see pluses and negatives to both sides of the debate, but what are the benefits to leaving really? It's so depressing. I started my own company last year, a design consultancy, and we have clients in Germany, Italy and the US. When we bill them in their local currency, we get more money in our bank account. However, upon leaving Canada last year I received a tax rebate. It wasn't worth a lot. Turned out there had been a mistake and I actually owed them money. This wasn't discovered until August. It cost me way more to pay them back. Volatile foreign currency aside, I've largely found myself more disappointed with the behaviour, demeanour and opinions of a quantity of the general populace than I can remember - and it's exacerbated by having moved back to the UK from somewhere seemingly idyllic (and progressive). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 17, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2017 57 minutes ago, PieFacE said: So the Brexit deal will go to parliament to vote on, and if they vote "no" to it? I assume that it'll be a case of the logic going like this: "we" voted to leave, so we're gonna leave whatever. Parliament decided the deal I negotiated is rubbish, therefore we're going to leave without doing any deal. Then we'll sort of fumble along trying to clean up the mess. If they're all grown up about it, then the deal with the EU could be made better with the benefit of our Parliament being able to provide a view. I doubt that they will be all grown up - the whole thing remains an exercise in tory party management 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 3 hours ago, snowychap said: Yep, I can't imagine a PM would be so stupid as to put their neck and career on the line about Europe. When you put it like that However what if she has watched the other Lemming's and has had a Eureka moment or a deal done already under the table ? She might not purposely commit career suicide like the others is a possible outcome that could be good for the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Agreed Blandy, if only we had a credible opposition to make it not so and make them accountable to you know the rest of the people in the country. What a time to go missing. Seeing as how harshly the Lib Dems were treated over tuition fees I do worry about how the voters will thank Labour for this. Still lots of time for change and politics seems particularly volatile at the moment. Trump will probably declare war with the EU or something which may swing things back in our favour. Edited January 17, 2017 by villaglint 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 **** Tories Their eurosceptics made Cameron call the referendum, now all their populist crap is just causing more of a divide, and now there's no money to fund the NHS. They've really **** up the country good and proper. But still, it could be worse, that dreadful unelectable Corbyn could be in, giving the NHS more money, nationalising the railways. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 The take away from today, for me, is that what we're asking for is so totally unambitious that nothing we get can possibly be termed 'a bad deal'. It's a bit like a 16 year old saying 'I plan on getting an F in my Geography GCSE!' It's no **** good, but it's pretty unlikely anyone's going to be accusing them of failing to meet their targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I think the strangest thing in all this is the emphasis on "jurisdiction of the ECJ". Any trade deal that has defences against unfair trade (eg China flooding the solar panel market with loss-leading subsidised below-cost products) has to have some sort of court/tribunal to settle disputes. Even the WTO has this. But sure it sounds like ye are happy with the customs union, so no trade deals anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 hours ago, PieFacE said: So the Brexit deal will go to parliament to vote on, and if they vote "no" to it? Amber Rudd was asked about this on radio several times, and continually refused to answer the questions, instead giving some guff on the lines of "We are focussed on delivering an outcome that will win the support of Parliament", which is MP-speak for "Haven't a scoobie, son. Next!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) The vote for the eventual deal when it happens in parliament will be a formality although no doubt some will abstain - ultimately the majority vote was for brexit and that is what must happen and no doubt will for the sake of democracy . Its take the deal or we walk away with no deal - either way once we trigger the article in march we have 2 years to put a deal in place - either way staying in the eu is not an option . Edited January 17, 2017 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 17, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2017 For a woman who campaigned for Remain, she does sound like she'd like to leave. I have some sympathy for her in a way (and by some I mean very little), she's having to do things which she most likely doesn't agree with in order to keep support from within her party and to prove "the will of the people". I mean, I know ultimately the fate of the nation is more important, but you have to feel a little pity for this husk of a woman and her twice sold soul - finally getting her dream job and finding it a loaded nightmare. I'm sure the Mail and the Express will be right behind her, just as I'm sure they will be during the hard times to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: 3 hours ago, PieFacE said: So the Brexit deal will go to parliament to vote on, and if they vote "no" to it? They won't. The fear of being labelled enemies of the people and losing their seat is too much, regardless of whether the deal is objectionably horrible for the people. I'm not so sure about that. If the ruling comes back from The Supreme Court that there must be something passed in parliament ahead of invoking A50 and it is voted for then that part of the bargain is done and dusted. A debate about and vote on the deal achieved through the negotiation process needs to be scrutinized and voted on as something separate to the decision of leaving. Edit: If Parliament does vote against the deal then I guess we leave without a deal in place unless either the government ignores parliament (would that see them back in the courts or would that be viewed as acceptable under prerogative powers?) or part of the deal is an offer to ignore the article 50 invocation. Edit 2: Also nice that she chose not to make her little speech in parliament. Edited January 17, 2017 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chindie Posted January 17, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2017 Theresa May campaigned for whatever would position her to take power if Cameron fell on his sword. Hence carefully chosen absenteeism in the referendum campaign and uncommitted 'Remain' stance. I've less than no sympathy for her. She wanted this position, she can carry the shit that comes with it. I daresay if you could dig around in her deepest thoughts, you'd find someone who did think Remain was the right choice, but that was dwarfed by outright ambition and thirst for power. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: For a woman who campaigned for Remain, she does sound like she'd like to leave. I have some sympathy for her in a way (and by some I mean very little), she's having to do things which she most likely doesn't agree with in order to keep support from within her party and to prove "the will of the people". I mean, I know ultimately the fate of the nation is more important, but you have to feel a little pity for this husk of a woman and her twice sold soul - finally getting her dream job and finding it a loaded nightmare. I'm sure the Mail and the Express will be right behind her, just as I'm sure they will be during the hard times to come. The only consolation for her is that the so called main opposition party is in total shambles . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 17, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, Eastie said: The only consolation for her is that the so called main opposition party is in total shambles . Absolutely, so, we're in a position where the electorate are quite likely to be going into an election where they dislike both of the main parties. I wonder if Alan Sugar fancies the job of PM? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, darrenm said: **** Tories Their eurosceptics made Cameron call the referendum, now all their populist crap is just causing more of a divide, and now there's no money to fund the NHS. They've really **** up the country good and proper. But still, it could be worse, that dreadful unelectable Corbyn could be in, giving the NHS more money, nationalising the railways. Now there's no money ? Hasn't it been under funded for about 6000 years ? as per previous posts Corbyn can't easily renationalise the railways whilst we are in EU , nor can he fund it and the NHS with some magic beans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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