hippo Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 10 hours ago, chrisp65 said: When was that ? I think most politicians would like access to the single market. But know they won't get it unless we accept free movement - which in the current climate is political suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 It means we'll agree specific deals on the various industries where the EU and UK can't live without each other eg cars, finance etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, meregreen said: If there is a swing in public opinion, and it wouldn't take much. Then the remainers could well become the new majority . Politicians might then become emboldened to reject any deal offered . An internal crisis within the Tory Party might ensue, and then all bets are off. What a bloody mess this country is in . I think both sides are too entrenched. The Brexit people want brexit on any terms - or else they will have say 'i was wrong - lets stay after all' The remain people will will jump on anything that goes wrong and say 'its all because we left the EU' I think we are on the road to ruin, corporation tax will slashed, leaving less money for public services, things like the NHS will be effectively run by american companies - country will be like hong kong in 20 years.... Edited January 18, 2017 by hippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, villaglint said: It means we'll agree specific deals on the various industries where the EU and UK can't live without each other eg cars, finance etc But surley they won't be comparable terms to the single market ? - or else everyone would do it ? - we might get slightly better terms that WTO tarrifs IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 18, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 minute ago, hippo said: I think both sides are two entrenched. The Brexit people want brexit on any terms - or else they will have say 'i was wrong - lets stay after all' The remain people will will jump on anything that goes wrong and say 'its all because we left the EU' I think we are on the road to ruin, corporation tax will slashed, leaving less money for public services, things like the NHS will be effectively run by american companies - country will be like hong kong in 20 years.... There are a number of well off people, dyed in the wool stone hearted Tories, who would read that bolded section and get shameful erections as they read each word and by the end would need the tissues and shed a joyful tear as they felt some emotion for the first time in decades As I mentioned last night, there's a theory that many would support that puts leaving the EU as the first push towards rolling back the welfare state, which a number of people view as a millstone around the country's neck. I don't really believe that, I think the power in the Tories aren't evil in quite that direction en masse yet, but I can understand the thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted January 18, 2017 Author Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 18, 2017 Things it said in the Tory party manifesto for getting elected in 2015 Quote give you a say over whether we should stay in or leave the EU, with an in-out referendum by the end of 2017....reform the workings of the EU, which is too big, too bossy and too bureaucratic, reclaim power from Brussels on your behalf and safeguard British interests in the Single Market... We say: yes to the Single Market....We benefit from the Single Market....we will not let the integration of the Eurozone jeopardise the integrity of the Single Market....We want to preserve the integrity of the Single Market...We want to expand the Single Market... So, er, we're going to leave the single market. Yep, trust them tories not to tell any lies. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 18, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18, 2017 I assume someone will be hastily deleting that on Tory HQ, whilst a colleague Photoshops a new one were they scribble out Single Market and replace it with 'Foreigners' and the positive words with negative ones. And the cover will be changed from the stupid tree to a picture of Brussels on fire with a horde of strangely Arabic looking men with crescent moon jumpers storming out of it, burning St George's Crosses and leering at the Queen, with the headline 'The EU'. That'd sell. It's also a snapshot of Nigel Farage's manufactured mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 26 minutes ago, blandy said: Things it said in the Tory party manifesto for getting elected in 2015 So, er, we're going to leave the single market. Yep, trust them tories not to tell any lies. What they are saying now - and it comes across like a Central Office line that people have been told to parrot - is that Parliament decided to let the people determine the outcome, and this supercedes the manifesto commitment. Of course that doesn't begin to address the point that this should mean that they need to seek a form of Brexit which retains access to the single market, which would reconcile both the aim of leaving and the manifesto commitment (and also what a great many people seem to have thought they were voting for). Still, if the aim of the exercise is to get to the end of the interview in question, rather than address bigger issues, that doesn't matter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 38 minutes ago, peterms said: What they are saying now - and it comes across like a Central Office line that people have been told to parrot - is that Parliament decided to let the people determine the outcome, and this supercedes the manifesto commitment. Of course that doesn't begin to address the point that this should mean that they need to seek a form of Brexit which retains access to the single market, which would reconcile both the aim of leaving and the manifesto commitment (and also what a great many people seem to have thought they were voting for). Still, if the aim of the exercise is to get to the end of the interview in question, rather than address bigger issues, that doesn't matter. I don't believe staying in the single market without FOM was ever an option on the table . I don't think anybody has voted on this. If you voted leave, than that meant leaving the single market as well IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Just now, hippo said: I don't believe staying in the single market without FOM was ever an option on the table . I don't think anybody has voted on this. If you voted leave, than that meant leaving the single market as well IMO. See the quotes posted above, where people specifically said the exact opposite. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 It is good to see that we in Britain, in stark contrast to that boorish fellow in the US, have politicians who can exercise tact, charm and diplomacy to smooth our path in what would otherwise be tense and fraught negotiations. Thank you, Boris. Quote 25m ago11:00 Boris Johnson uses Nazi comparison to criticise French president's stance on Brexit Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, is in India and, speaking in Delhi, he has responded to French criticism of the UK’s plan to leave the European union, implicitly comparing the French president, Francois Hollande, to a Nazi. He said: If Mr Hollande wants to administer punishment beatings to anybody who seeks to escape [the EU], in the manner of some world war two movie, I don’t think that is the way forward, and it’s not in the interests of our friends and partners. It seems absolutely incredible to me that in the 21st century member states of the EU should be seriously contemplating the reintroduction of tariffs or whatever to administer punishment to the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Jesus **** christ. He was damaging enough without letting the buffoon play diplomacy as Foreign Secretary. He shouldn't be let out of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 18, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 18, 2017 Unhelpful language from Boris certainly and if honest I'm struggling to understand the WW2 reference.... but the accusation he is comparing him to a Nazi seems a little bit of a stretch to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Unhelpful language from Boris certainly and if honest I'm struggling to understand the WW2 reference.... but the accusation he is comparing him to a Nazi seems a little bit of a stretch to me. In films about WW2, punishment beatings were administered by German (Nazi) concentration camp guards to prisoners who had tried to escape (and who had not been shot in the attempt). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post peterms Posted January 18, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 18, 2017 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 18, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 18, 2017 David Davis made a WW2 reference as well yesterday. Far be it from me to suggest these references are not without thought... Push the narrative of the UK being some grand nation, the backs to the wall blitz spirit crap that is music to the ears of many of the Brexit persuasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 18, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 18, 2017 36 minutes ago, peterms said: In films about WW2, punishment beatings were administered by German (Nazi) concentration camp guards to prisoners who had tried to escape (and who had not been shot in the attempt). As I'm sure they were to Italian prisoners in Sutton Park. The above does make a little more a little more sense granted, still think it's a bit of a stretch to say he compared him to a Nazi personally. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I know I'm being picky, but people keep saying 'access to the single market'. Everybody in the world has 'access to the single market'. What we want (or what I think most people want) is 'tariff-free access to the single market'. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, hippo said: I don't believe staying in the single market without FOM was ever an option on the table . I don't think anybody has voted on this. If you voted leave, than that meant leaving the single market as well IMO. 1 hour ago, peterms said: See the quotes posted above, where people specifically said the exact opposite. I don't think many expected a leave vote to win the day. But IMO what has become obvious since the vote is that your not going to get access to the single market without FOM. Whether the brexiters miscalculated and thought they would, or deliberately played down the prospect of leaving the single market -im not sure, it matters not now anyway - the vote was leave, the consequence of that is we loose access to the single market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 minute ago, peterms said: In films about WW2, punishment beatings were administered by German (Nazi) concentration camp guards to prisoners who had tried to escape (and who had not been shot in the attempt). When you get some time you should watch Bridge on the River Kwai ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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