Chindie Posted January 16, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2017 4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Unless the deal is basically TTiP's T&C's but with the EU crossed out and the UK written in. Which would make a lot of sense I think in terms of why we got a referendum on this. First sentence - Yes, perhaps. Second sentence - don't be silly. The referendum was called to try to put the Europe question that plagued the Tories (and British politics more widely) to bed. They never expected it to backfire.Nothing to do with TTIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 16, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Awol said: See Chrisp65 post. That's apparently what's being discussed. Trouble is it's entirely impractical. All the EU people who will have a legal right to go to the Republic, but no legal right to enter the UK, will be able to enter the Republic under the EU rules...and then simply meander across the soft border to the North and on to the mainland should they so wish. If that's the mechanism used, it'll cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, blandy said: Trouble is it's entirely impractical. All the EU people who will have a legal right to go to the Republic, but no legal right to enter the UK, will be able to enter the Republic under the EU rules...and then simply meander across the soft border to the North and on to the mainland should they so wish. If that's the mechanism used, it'll cause problems. The aim will be to ping undesirables at entry points to the Republic. Europeans can simply wander straight into the U.K. after flashing a passport at immigration control, no way we're looking at visit visas. So if the aim is entry to the U.K. to seek work illegally then no need at all to go via Dublin. Either I've got deja vu or we had this exact conversation about 2 weeks ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 16, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Awol said: I've got deja vu Not again. [Did we, sorry.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 On this UK-US 'free' tradee deal, we can't sign up to anything until we've left the EU, can we? So that would make it March 2019 at the earliest (assuming invocation of article 50 as trailed). Also, didn't Trump spend most of his campaign saying that the US had been screwed over too much by bad deals with foreign countries and that it wouldn't happen on his watch (far too smart, far too smart probably) - the 'era of economic surrender was over'. Allies we may be and his mother may have loved the Queen but I'm not sure that we'd want to be at the front of the queue when the Trump administration is surely looking to make an example of how it can flex its muscles in terms of making foreing trade deals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 47 minutes ago, snowychap said: ... the Trump administration is surely looking to make an example of how it can flex its muscles in terms of making foreing trade deals. Oh yes, and the winning Tory team at this end were responsible for the shitty parts of TTIP and the fab deal with Southern, of which I'm reminded of all the time, as a resident of South London. My Scottish old dear was always disappointed by my lack of connection with her homeland, but I was born in the Birmingham postal district and always considered the Mids home. She'll be overjoyed that I'll be seeking a Scottish passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, snowychap said: On this UK-US 'free' tradee deal, we can't sign up to anything until we've left the EU, can we? So that would make it March 2019 at the earliest (assuming invocation of article 50 as trailed). Also, didn't Trump spend most of his campaign saying that the US had been screwed over too much by bad deals with foreign countries and that it wouldn't happen on his watch (far too smart, far too smart probably) - the 'era of economic surrender was over'. Allies we may be and his mother may have loved the Queen but I'm not sure that we'd want to be at the front of the queue when the Trump administration is surely looking to make an example of how it can flex its muscles in terms of making foreing trade deals. You're right, we can't sign any third country trade deals until we officially leave the EU. Whether we have the bandwidth to run EU exit and third country FTA negotiations concurrently is open to question, that's on Fox's new department - and it was clear when that was established that UK was leaving the customs union. A slight aside but Fox has deep links with the republican establishment in the US through the Atlantic Council, Hudson Institute and Heritage Foundation. Given that a broad FTA with the US would be a major economic boost post-Brexit Fox may prove very useful in that role - and was probably picked specifically for it. On Trump's trade view he's vowed to deliver good deals (the best, beautiful) and focus on jobs. It's the manufacturing type roles that were moved abroad to chase cheap Labour that he's looking to bring back. The UK isn't in that box (having similarly outsourced manufacturing), where I think we have real challenges are in finance and agriculture, the former with Wall Street and the latter with Monsanto and the GM crowd. Those will be red lines London has to maintain to keep on side the money men and the general public, respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Xann said: Oh yes, and the winning Tory team at this end were responsible for the shitty parts of TTIP and the fab deal with Southern, of which I'm reminded of all the time, as a resident of South London. My Scottish old dear was always disappointed by my lack of connection with her homeland, but I was born in the Birmingham postal district and always considered the Mids home. She'll be overjoyed that I'll be seeking a Scottish passport. as a Scot she'd probably be horrified that you are wasting your money seeing as Scotland , as part of the Uk are leaving with us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: as a Scot she'd probably be horrified that you are wasting your money seeing as Scotland , as part of the Uk are leaving with us unless they get independence in the 2 years pre-brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post snowychap Posted January 16, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Awol said: Fox may prove very useful in that role If we're relying upon that disgraced, self-serving, lying, duplicitous arse for our economic future then we're stuffed. Edited January 16, 2017 by snowychap Edited for the description of Fox. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Awol said: On Trump's trade view he's vowed to deliver good deals (the best, beautiful) and focus on jobs. He hasn't just said that, though. He has spoken repeatedly about tariffs on imports in to the US and 'fair' (by which he largely appears to mean favourable to the US) terms regarding US exports. Edited January 16, 2017 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 16 minutes ago, snowychap said: If we're relying upon that disgraced, self-serving, lying, duplicitous arse for our economic future then we're stuffed. We also seem to be relying on Trump... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 50 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: as a Scot she'd probably be horrified that you are wasting your money seeing as Scotland , as part of the Uk are leaving with us They're more than likely off Mate There ends our joint chapter in World history. Back to 1705 we go. Just hope the bickering doesn't kick off again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Xann said: They're more than likely off Mate I was up there at Christmas (Aberdeenshire) and wasn't getting that vibe - understand Glasgow different. Has there been any polling to say majority favour a new IndyRef and/or a majority for separating? Every poll I've seen says the opposite. If Sturgeon thought she could win another vote she'd be all over it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted January 16, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Awol said: If Sturgeon thought she could win another vote she'd be all over it? As with Brexit, I think a second vote within weeks of the original would probably have had a different outcome. I think the dust has settled somewhat since and the departure of Uncle Dave has probably lessened the ire but I'd be entirely unsurprised if Sturgeon isn't just keeping her powder dry to see how things pan out in the next wee while. Whether she has enough support to win a second indy ref, I don't know but she'll only pull the trigger (if able) if it looks like Brexit isn't going to favour the Scots and if that were the case, I'd imagine she's have no trouble gaining support. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Off topic, but the fundamental problems of Scottish independence remain. What money will they use? Will Spain allow it? Saying that, I do know they are currently refreshing the data base of 'Yes' volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Just now, chrisp65 said: Off topic, but the fundamental problems of Scottish independence remain. What money will they use? Will Spain allow it? Saying that, I do know they are currently refreshing the data base of 'Yes' volunteers. I did write a similar reply at work but forgot to post it Adopting the Euro as I understood it wasn't set in stone , article 122 suggested new memebers needed to adopt the Euro but article 140 said that they had to pass various tests (ERM amongst others ) before they could this there isn't a time frame on the when ( I'm paraphrasing my work post as I can't recall the article numbers ) ... I saw one solution on offer was that Scotland keep use the £ but peg it to the Euro Spain is a different kettle of paella though like you suggest .... I think Sturgeons play is that Scotland aren't new members and thus couldn't be blocked ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: I think Sturgeons play is that Scotland aren't new members and thus couldn't be blocked ... Done to death but the EU is an association of states, Scotland is no more a current EU member than England, Wales or NI - hence, 'home nations' not 'home states'. Were Scotland to become a new (old) State it would have to apply as new member, with a debt to GDP ratio higher than Greece and a credit rating by Vin Diesel. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Do the people of Scotland "want their country back" is it just an English thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Choffer's pretty much got it on the nose. What I will add is they despise Westminster, understandably as it's filled with complete pricks. Scotland never votes Tory, a handful of blue constituencies max, usually less. It's England that inflicts them with Tory rule. With no end of that in sight, how does everyone think they're going to vote? The BBC was used to great effect by remain, but that card is spent, the Beeb is now regarded with suspicion. Sturgeon isn't nearly as hateable as repugnant shitbag Salmond. Do people really think the UK controlling immigration into Ireland is workable, yet Scottish independence with a mandate isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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