Refugee crisis

[AshVilla]

No entry to Hungary will this stop the swarm

[Stevo985]

@Rugeley Villa , What's the difference between the anti jewish and christian propaganda that you're criticising occurring in the middle east, and the anti Islam propaganda you've written in that post?

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

ice rink?

[chrisp65]

Ermie, please forgive me but I'm fascinated by this not being allowed to wear the kippah. Bit of a learning curve for me this subject.

I've just looked up a random 3 NHS Trust dress codes, this one (Norwich University Hospital) was absolutely typical:

3.2 Religious Dress Requirements Although the Trust welcomes the variety of appearances brought by individual styles, choices and religious requirements regarding dress; this will be treated sensitively and will be agreed on an individual basis with the Manager and Trust and must conform to health, safety and security regulations, infection prevention and control and moving and handling guidelines. The wearing of saris, turbans, skullcaps, hijabs, kippahs and clerical collars arising from particular cultural / religious norms are seen as part of welcoming diversity. 

The All Wales NHS dress code advisory simply says keep hair neat and tidy, cover up body piercings, no false nails, respect religious requirements that aren't in contravention of hygene rules.

Specific Welsh Trusts all appear to say religious clothing is ok, Cardiff & Vale, UHW Trust etc.. There is a grievance procedure if you've been specifically told otherwise. You need to write in, they need to tell you in writing why they are saying no. Obviously I don't know the specifics of your circumstances. The code does state that those interacting or dealing directly with the public CANNOT wear full length sleeves, full length floor touching clothes or full facial coverings. So muslim women interacting directly with patients cannot wear whatever they like.

You need to talk to your union if you've been told you can't wear a cap, it's wrong.

I'm fairly familiar with Treorchy too. Population well under about 10,000? Not sure I've ever noticed a significantly large muslim community there? Certainly never felt any sort of menace? But then, I will concede I don't wear and religious identifiers. Is it Swansea perhaps where you think you might experience trouble?

 

[coda]

christianity in the middle east is rapidly on the decline and christians are being horribly persecuted, i think this is common knowledge and in years to come it will be near enough wiped out in that part of the world. islam though is on the rise in the west and will only increase its presence. are muslims being persecuted in the west? no they are being able to practise their faith freely and build even more mosques, would this happen with christians in the middle east? most muslims are peaceful but there are millions who believe in the radical side of islam and thats the problem, the negative islam easily defeats any positive in its religion. are there any anti islam propoganda being taught in schools in the uk and even the middle east? plenty of anti jewish and christian propoganda being taught over in the middle east though and even in this country you hear of kids being exposed to radicalised teachings. cartoons with anti western propoganda, school books with anti western propoganda its no wonder kids over there at an early age believe its the norm to hate the west, some people might blame the west for invading muslim countries but what about the thousands of muslims getting killed by their own people during civil war? are we to blame for that as well.

The Independent recently featured an article about an ultra-orthodox Jewish school, in London, teaching children that 'non-Jews are evil'. This is apparently common in that type of school.

[HanoiVillan]

Ermie, please forgive me but I'm fascinated by this not being allowed to wear the kippah. Bit of a learning curve for me this subject.

I've just looked up a random 3 NHS Trust dress codes, this one (Norwich University Hospital) was absolutely typical:

3.2 Religious Dress Requirements Although the Trust welcomes the variety of appearances brought by individual styles, choices and religious requirements regarding dress; this will be treated sensitively and will be agreed on an individual basis with the Manager and Trust and must conform to health, safety and security regulations, infection prevention and control and moving and handling guidelines. The wearing of saris, turbans, skullcaps, hijabs, kippahs and clerical collars arising from particular cultural / religious norms are seen as part of welcoming diversity. 

The All Wales NHS dress code advisory simply says keep hair neat and tidy, cover up body piercings, no false nails, respect religious requirements that aren't in contravention of hygene rules.

Specific Welsh Trusts all appear to say religious clothing is ok, Cardiff & Vale, UHW Trust etc.. There is a grievance procedure if you've been specifically told otherwise. You need to write in, they need to tell you in writing why they are saying no. Obviously I don't know the specifics of your circumstances. The code does state that those interacting or dealing directly with the public CANNOT wear full length sleeves, full length floor touching clothes or full facial coverings. So muslim women interacting directly with patients cannot wear whatever they like.

You need to talk to your union if you've been told you can't wear a cap, it's wrong.

I'm fairly familiar with Treorchy too. Population well under about 10,000? Not sure I've ever noticed a significantly large muslim community there? Certainly never felt any sort of menace? But then, I will concede I don't wear and religious identifiers. Is it Swansea perhaps where you think you might experience trouble?

 

Assuming Ermie is being honest, it sounds like he has a legitimate grievance. As a result of the Nadia Eweida case (she was the BA flight attendant who successfully took a case to Strasbourg arguing that BA's prevention of her wearing a cross outside of her uniform was an infringement of her human rights), employers have to be able to give a very good reason why an item of religious clothing or other adornment is forbidden. He should demand an explanation in writing, and alert his union representative if no good reason is given, as you suggest. 

[Keyblade]

christianity in the middle east is rapidly on the decline and christians are being horribly persecuted, i think this is common knowledge and in years to come it will be near enough wiped out in that part of the world. islam though is on the rise in the west and will only increase its presence. are muslims being persecuted in the west? no they are being able to practise their faith freely and build even more mosques, would this happen with christians in the middle east? most muslims are peaceful but there are millions who believe in the radical side of islam and thats the problem, the negative islam easily defeats any positive in its religion. are there any anti islam propoganda being taught in schools in the uk and even the middle east? plenty of anti jewish and christian propoganda being taught over in the middle east though and even in this country you hear of kids being exposed to radicalised teachings. cartoons with anti western propoganda, school books with anti western propoganda its no wonder kids over there at an early age believe its the norm to hate the west, some people might blame the west for invading muslim countries but what about the thousands of muslims getting killed by their own people during civil war? are we to blame for that as well.

All I see here are assumptions (at best) and a whole lot of buzzwords.

[Rugeley Villa]

not buzzwords just facts.

[NurembergVillan]

And what are those facts? Any way of substantiating them?

Should we have stopped the Irish from moving to the mainland in the 70s and 80s?

[MakemineVanilla]

christianity in the middle east is rapidly on the decline and christians are being horribly persecuted, i think this is common knowledge and in years to come it will be near enough wiped out in that part of the world. islam though is on the rise in the west and will only increase its presence. are muslims being persecuted in the west? no they are being able to practise their faith freely and build even more mosques, would this happen with christians in the middle east? most muslims are peaceful but there are millions who believe in the radical side of islam and thats the problem, the negative islam easily defeats any positive in its religion. are there any anti islam propoganda being taught in schools in the uk and even the middle east? plenty of anti jewish and christian propoganda being taught over in the middle east though and even in this country you hear of kids being exposed to radicalised teachings. cartoons with anti western propoganda, school books with anti western propoganda its no wonder kids over there at an early age believe its the norm to hate the west, some people might blame the west for invading muslim countries but what about the thousands of muslims getting killed by their own people during civil war? are we to blame for that as well.

The Independent recently featured an article about an ultra-orthodox Jewish school, in London, teaching children that 'non-Jews are evil'. This is apparently common in that type of school.

 

Another question asks: “What did the goyim want to do with all the Jews?” – to which the answer, according to the worksheet, is: “Kill them.”.

“It doesn’t explicitly refer to the Holocaust,” the source said. “It’s a document that teaches very young children to be very afraid and treat non-Jews very suspiciously because of what they did to us in the past.

 

But knowing history it doesn't seem totally unreasonable when the Jews say it. 

I suppose we might have to check our history and see why Muslims might think the West had it in for them.

 

Edited September 15, 2015 by MakemineVanilla

[Jarpie]

christianity in the middle east is rapidly on the decline and christians are being horribly persecuted, i think this is common knowledge and in years to come it will be near enough wiped out in that part of the world. islam though is on the rise in the west and will only increase its presence. are muslims being persecuted in the west? no they are being able to practise their faith freely and build even more mosques, would this happen with christians in the middle east? most muslims are peaceful but there are millions who believe in the radical side of islam and thats the problem, the negative islam easily defeats any positive in its religion. are there any anti islam propoganda being taught in schools in the uk and even the middle east? plenty of anti jewish and christian propoganda being taught over in the middle east though and even in this country you hear of kids being exposed to radicalised teachings. cartoons with anti western propoganda, school books with anti western propoganda its no wonder kids over there at an early age believe its the norm to hate the west, some people might blame the west for invading muslim countries but what about the thousands of muslims getting killed by their own people during civil war? are we to blame for that as well.

The Independent recently featured an article about an ultra-orthodox Jewish school, in London, teaching children that 'non-Jews are evil'. This is apparently common in that type of school.

 

Another question asks: “What did the goyim want to do with all the Jews?” – to which the answer, according to the worksheet, is: “Kill them.”.

“It doesn’t explicitly refer to the Holocaust,” the source said. “It’s a document that teaches very young children to be very afraid and treat non-Jews very suspiciously because of what they did to us in the past.

 

But knowing history it doesn't seem totally unreasonable when the Jews say it. 

I suppose we might have to check our history and see why Muslims might think the West had it in for them.

 

If you go back in history to look if some nation/culture/religion/civilisation/etc has done something against some other people, you will find it as it has always happened, and it will always happen due the human nature.

If you hold the grudge or hatred against the people who's ancestors did something many generations or centuries ago, the cycle will never end as it will just create more of the same for future generations who can't let go of the past.

For example, I don't hold grudge or hatred against the modern russian people for soviet union trying to invade Finland and starting the winter war. I don't get why the muslims (or any other people for that matter) should get the same excuse to hate or teach their kids to hate the christians or jews for something what happened centuries ago, if you were referring to the crusades.

[lapal_fan]

**** hell Ruge, you've made a right tit of yourself there mate.  You're not coming up with facts at all, you're just making sweeping generalisations and picking (not even) figures out of the air.

We get that you're not a big fan of Islam, but there aren't "millions" of radical Muslims at all.

I actually surveyed 2 of the schools which were teaching these "radical islam" kids in Birmingham 2 years ago, the kids were normal and the teachers were welcoming, it must have been some pretty obscure lessons because all I saw were normal things going on in the school.  There were no AK47 training lessons, there were no maps of important landmarks with crudely red crosses saying "target", mostly just a mini petting zoo, a few nice fish tanks and pretty pictures of all different kinds of kids holding hands.

So stop talking tosh, you're only vilifying yourself with your lack of understanding about the subject.  Don't forget, there are lots of people on this website that read these threads that follow Islam, and they've got to read your ramblings about their entire culture/civilisation which are frankly absurd.  Stop being so insensitive and stop reading Britain First an other medias of it's ilk.

[bickster]

For instance i work as a nurse and i had a African student who stated that she liked her coffee black, the looks that went around were unbelievable and when i told her the reason she said it was stupid as she said if you want black coffee then ask for black coffee.  Do you get my drift? 

Go on admit it, you made that shit up didn't you. That didn't really happen did it. You'd like to think it happened but it didn't

Because theres nothing wrong with using the term black and no-one bats an eyelid at it.

[lapal_fan]

For instance i work as a nurse and i had a African student who stated that she liked her coffee black, the looks that went around were unbelievable and when i told her the reason she said it was stupid as she said if you want black coffee then ask for black coffee.  Do you get my drift? 

Go on admit it, you made that shit up didn't you. That didn't really happen did it. You'd like to think it happened but it didn't

Because theres nothing wrong with using the term black and no-one bats an eyelid at it.

That's nothing, you want to see the looks I get when I get my tub of crayons out.

[MakemineVanilla]

**** hell Ruge, you've made a right tit of yourself there mate.  You're not coming up with facts at all, you're just making sweeping generalisations and picking (not even) figures out of the air.

We get that you're not a big fan of Islam, but there aren't "millions" of radical Muslims at all.

I actually surveyed 2 of the schools which were teaching these "radical islam" kids in Birmingham 2 years ago, the kids were normal and the teachers were welcoming, it must have been some pretty obscure lessons because all I saw were normal things going on in the school.  There were no AK47 training lessons, there were no maps of important landmarks with crudely red crosses saying "target", mostly just a mini petting zoo, a few nice fish tanks and pretty pictures of all different kinds of kids holding hands.

So stop talking tosh, you're only vilifying yourself with your lack of understanding about the subject.  Don't forget, there are lots of people on this website that read these threads that follow Islam, and they've got to read your ramblings about their entire culture/civilisation which are frankly absurd.  Stop being so insensitive and stop reading Britain First an other medias of it's ilk.

Funny enough, I thought Ruge's argument was very similar to that of the late Christopher Hitchens, who definitely was no tit.

Hatred of an ideology is definitely not the same as hating people.

PS Did you really mean 'insensitive' or did you mean 'sensitive'?

 

[chrisp65]

For instance i work as a nurse and i had a African student who stated that she liked her coffee black, the looks that went around were unbelievable and when i told her the reason she said it was stupid as she said if you want black coffee then ask for black coffee.  Do you get my drift? 

Go on admit it, you made that shit up didn't you. That didn't really happen did it. You'd like to think it happened but it didn't

Because theres nothing wrong with using the term black and no-one bats an eyelid at it.

it's the same in my office

I've run out of black ink, but we have to ask for ink of colour, which is not what I want

I've now got about 20 colour cartridges, but I still can't print 'cos I don't have any, you know, ink of colour

 

[lapal_fan]

Smells like Buulllllshiiitttttt

[lapal_fan]

Smells like Buulllllshiiitttttt

**** hell Ruge, you've made a right tit of yourself there mate.  You're not coming up with facts at all, you're just making sweeping generalisations and picking (not even) figures out of the air.

We get that you're not a big fan of Islam, but there aren't "millions" of radical Muslims at all.

I actually surveyed 2 of the schools which were teaching these "radical islam" kids in Birmingham 2 years ago, the kids were normal and the teachers were welcoming, it must have been some pretty obscure lessons because all I saw were normal things going on in the school.  There were no AK47 training lessons, there were no maps of important landmarks with crudely red crosses saying "target", mostly just a mini petting zoo, a few nice fish tanks and pretty pictures of all different kinds of kids holding hands.

So stop talking tosh, you're only vilifying yourself with your lack of understanding about the subject.  Don't forget, there are lots of people on this website that read these threads that follow Islam, and they've got to read your ramblings about their entire culture/civilisation which are frankly absurd.  Stop being so insensitive and stop reading Britain First an other medias of it's ilk.

Funny enough, I thought Ruge's argument was very similar to that of the late Christopher Hitchens, who definitely was no tit.

Hatred of an ideology is definitely not the same as hating people.

PS Did you really mean 'insensitive' or did you mean 'sensitive'?

 

I did mean insensitive, towards the

[tonyh29]

Ermie, please forgive me but I'm fascinated by this not being allowed to wear the kippah. Bit of a learning curve for me this subject.

I've just looked up a random 3 NHS Trust dress codes, this one (Norwich University Hospital) was absolutely typical:

3.2 Religious Dress Requirements Although the Trust welcomes the variety of appearances brought by individual styles, choices and religious requirements regarding dress; this will be treated sensitively and will be agreed on an individual basis with the Manager and Trust and must conform to health, safety and security regulations, infection prevention and control and moving and handling guidelines. The wearing of saris, turbans, skullcaps, hijabs, kippahs and clerical collars arising from particular cultural / religious norms are seen as part of welcoming diversity. 

The All Wales NHS dress code advisory simply says keep hair neat and tidy, cover up body piercings, no false nails, respect religious requirements that aren't in contravention of hygene rules.

Specific Welsh Trusts all appear to say religious clothing is ok, Cardiff & Vale, UHW Trust etc.. There is a grievance procedure if you've been specifically told otherwise. You need to write in, they need to tell you in writing why they are saying no. Obviously I don't know the specifics of your circumstances. The code does state that those interacting or dealing directly with the public CANNOT wear full length sleeves, full length floor touching clothes or full facial coverings. So muslim women interacting directly with patients cannot wear whatever they like.

You need to talk to your union if you've been told you can't wear a cap, it's wrong.

I'm fairly familiar with Treorchy too. Population well under about 10,000? Not sure I've ever noticed a significantly large muslim community there? Certainly never felt any sort of menace? But then, I will concede I don't wear and religious identifiers. Is it Swansea perhaps where you think you might experience trouble?

 

My take on this would be bring the next seriously ill Muslim in and give him a Jewish doctor wearing a kippah ... and say your choices are be treated by a jewish doctor or die  ..  a  muslim woman  in niqab treating a Britain first numpty , gay doctor to treat a homophobe etc

 

it will soon sort out all this stupidity as the stubborn ones will all be dead

Edited September 15, 2015 by tonyh29

[sexbelowsound]

**** hell Ruge, you've made a right tit of yourself there mate.  You're not coming up with facts at all, you're just making sweeping generalisations and picking (not even) figures out of the air.

We get that you're not a big fan of Islam, but there aren't "millions" of radical Muslims at all.

I actually surveyed 2 of the schools which were teaching these "radical islam" kids in Birmingham 2 years ago, the kids were normal and the teachers were welcoming, it must have been some pretty obscure lessons because all I saw were normal things going on in the school.  There were no AK47 training lessons, there were no maps of important landmarks with crudely red crosses saying "target", mostly just a mini petting zoo, a few nice fish tanks and pretty pictures of all different kinds of kids holding hands.

So stop talking tosh, you're only vilifying yourself with your lack of understanding about the subject.  Don't forget, there are lots of people on this website that read these threads that follow Islam, and they've got to read your ramblings about their entire culture/civilisation which are frankly absurd.  Stop being so insensitive and stop reading Britain First an other medias of it's ilk.

On the Trojan Horse thing....

At work (I work in a school) we were told that it wasn't a radicalisation (if that is even a thing) that was going but more the none teaching or undermining of "core British values"

In fact the government has actually placed an emphasis on the teaching of these core British values during certain lessons this year.

I've always said that the subject Citizenship comes and goes in schools during times of unrest and the norm. At the moment apparently its hot on the agenda.