Refugee crisis

[StefanAVFC]

Needs its own thread as it's a big issue now.

What are everybody's opinions?

I think we need to do more as a nation. Humanity before nationality.

[MikeMcKenna]

Agree. Pulling up the drawbridge and hoping it will all go away is a crap strategy. Apparently some Villa fans will be putting up a banner at the Leicester game. First Premier League clubs fans to offer:

#RefugeesWelcome EFL ‏@RefugeesEFL 1h1 hour ago

We have our 1st Premier League club! Aston Villa fans will put up a #RefugeesWelcome banner away at Leicester. Top-level example being set!

 

#RefugeesWelcome EFL ‏@RefugeesEFL 31m31 minutes ago

To everyone asking, Villa fans @Shins1874 & @D__av confirmed to us that they would be putting up #RefugeesWelcome banner at Leicester away.

[MikeMcKenna]

Petition to government now approaching 200,000 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105991

[maqroll]

Interesting that the Syrians want to enter Eastern Europe and not the wealthy Gulf states where there wouldn't be a language barrier...a clear collective denunciation of rule by theocracy it would seem.

[Swerbs]

Europe (The EU at least) needs to come up with a plan to share the refugees. We all need to do more but we simply can't have only a few countries taking on the burden.

[tonyh29]

We can do more as a nation by making their home country a safe place to live .. of course that is easier said than done 

In terms of migrants coming here it's no real big deal in reasonable numbers , but I've seen figures of 800,000 for Germany and I'm not sure the UK could cope with an influx like that ? but surely Muslim migrants would be better off going to the Gulf states than Europe , they would integrate much easier in other Muslim or Arab states .. how many are Dubai taking in I wonder ?

 

There is currently a big exodus of migrants coming out of Burma .. around  half a million is the estimate  , interestingly we aren't hearing anything about this in the news over here .. I guess out of sight out of mind ??

 

[Awol]

I think the EU have made some announcements based on emotion without really thinking it through. By saying that anyone from Syria arriving in the EU will receive asylum (that's a potential pool of 10 million refugees who are currently displaced) they are encouraging people who have already escaped immediate danger to risk their lives with criminal gangs to reach Europe.

I'd would argue that in so doing they have explicitly assumed a duty of care for those people and are now obliged to facilitate the safe passage of these 10 million or so refugees.  How European countries are supposed to distribute, care for and assimilate these people I don't know, but having made the commitment I'm assuming the Politicians have already thought this through.

Another interesting element is the possible legal precedent set by saying all can come because their home country is in conflict. Is this principle now to be extended to all countries in conflict where the population may feel unsafe? How many millions does that open the door to I wonder? 25 million in Yemen who are suffering as badly as the Syrians? Many millions more in Iraq?

I fear people in charge are making policy with huge implications based on emotion and not reason. Should we "do" something to help these poor folks? Absolutely. Is the solution to move a large part of the Middle East to Europe? I suspect not.

 

 

[GNeeUs]

I always thought refugees should go to the nearest safest country.  

They seem to have ventured through heaps of 'safe countries' to reach middle Europe.  

Saudi, Bahrain, Dubai etc. should be doing more.  Europe has dangled the carrot and is reaping the results.  

Should UK do more?  Ideally we should put our full foreign aid budget into helping these people.  Should we house them?  I'm not so sure... I guess we should have to take a small percentage/share but which refugees get picked out of God knows how many million?  

UK needs to send aid/military help to those Countries that do house them and help towards making Syria a civilised country so they can eventually go home.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

In the short term, each EU state should take a proportionate amount of refugees. Within the UK people can be resettled throughout the country easily. There is room, there are resources. After that, or alongside that, Syria (as that is the immediate concern) needs to be stabilized and that probably means a military intervention (although cobbling together a coalition to do that is another matter). That would be long and messy and we need to have a clear idea of what a good outcome is. Beyond that, Isis need to be dealt with militarily, as their antics are currently displacing millions of others (easier said that done, again). In the meantime, the wider region needs to take a long hard look at itself and ask why people prefer risking death to get to Europe rather than heading to what one would assume be culturally similar countries - I suspect the reason for that is, if they are going to leave home, then swapping one oppressive regime for another isn't worth it. I don't hold much hope of that happening because of various bullshit sectarian and tribal reasons.

In short, it's a bloody mess, but if you want an example of what we mustn't do, look at Australia.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2015 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner

[YLN]

Who is offering their homes up to refugees? Have I missed something? Whereby we as a human race have become less self interested and less afraid of foreign people? When did this happen? I'm certainly not giving up my living space to house refugees. Bollocks to that. And I'd be very surprised if anyone else did either. 10,000 people 'liked' a Facebook post which said Like this if you're willing to house a refugee in your home, or think the government should be doing more. I think all of the likes were for the second part of that post, but that's not how it has been reported. I think if 10,000 Syrians showed up to Iceland next week looking to cash in these likes, they could end up very surprised and disappointed. 

I get the impression that many of those advocating for the refugees being given shelter in Western Europe think that this is the only humanitarian evil in the world at the moment. It's like Make a Wish Foundation for very poor people. Come stay with Europeans, until next week when the social consciousness moves on and they've all forgotten about you. 'I'm going to make that dog my executive Vice President'. 

I consider myself quite ignorant in terms of what should be done for refugees, but I certainly don't think becoming a refugee of the Syrian war should be some sort of lotto win for the refugees. I think they should be housed somewhere in Europe that is worse than where they've come from in terms of their quality of life (read food, shelter, wifi connection), but where they are safe from being killed by the war, so that when the war is over and their country is as safe as it was prior to the war, they will be happy to go home. All refugees should be provided with is a safe haven until their war thing blows over and they can go home. And go home they shall gratefully. From the camp. 

I'd be very happy to be informed otherwise as to how else it's possible to house refugees sustainably.

[sharkyvilla]

The thing is the UK pays the second highest amount in foreign aid in the world yet it never seems to get through to nearly enough people to help them out.  When there are batshit evil pricks running riot in the Middle East then there's nothing you can really do except ultimately try to annihilate them.  Then history repeats itself.  Perhaps if the EU could come to some sort of agreement to allow temporary controls over freedom of movement within the EU, then it would be easier to redistribute refugees as at the moment the UK population is adding a new city's worth of people each year already.

[villakram]

Those countries who explicitly helped destroy Libya/Syria should front up. Looking specifically at you England/France (also USA/Russia).

Obviously, I don't expect any input from the tinpot middle eastern dictators.

In human tragedy terms, this is awful and everyone should help out. But I would suggest that if the taxpayers in the above countries were directly confronted with the results of their politicians actions, some longer term changes might happen. This shit just keeps repeating... 

 

Edited September 3, 2015 by villakram

[rendelc]

I think the EU is unraveling before our eyes .  It's very worrying when these refugees knowingly bypass the registration process in the first availiable country they come to . Also if these people are fleeing persecution etc , does it make them economic migrants as Turkey is where most of them are .

Edited September 3, 2015 by rendelc
Missed a point

[Demitri_C]

Please tell me if I am being selfish here but if they can manage to get to Turkey why cant they just find a home there? The country is bloody massive and surely as a muslim country easier to settle? Or why not any other country near Syria but close by? Why are they choosing Europe? I sadly do think alot of it is to money and the perception of life in the EU.

And this might yet again sound selfish but where are we going to house these refugees? It doesnt seem fair that a load of Londoners work hard pay their taxes and cant afford a home yet refugees will come here and get a home?

 

 

[Awol]

UK Gov just said they will take another 4000 from the camps near Syria. Smart move, not rewarding illegal entry to Europe and so not encouraging people to climb into rickety boats and rewarding traffickers. 

[omariqy]

The obvious solution is the gulf states. Sadly they are evil, corrupt and money hungry.  They don't want to give any wealth, time, space away to anyone else but themselves.

[Awol]

The obvious solution is the gulf states. Sadly they are evil, corrupt and money hungry.  They don't want to give any wealth, time, space away to anyone else but themselves.

Some of the Gulfies are still pouring money in, Al Qaeda (Jabat al Nusra) aren't paying themselves and weapons aren't cheap. Once they've finished destroying Yemen you can expect to see them switching to Syria as their main effort via proxy, but going after the regime through JaN, not fighting the Islamic State. 

Point being the Saudis and others are still stoking the fires of war, not trying to de-escalate it. They also don't give a damn about civilians, so long as they land some strategic blows on Iran the fate of the Syrian people is of no consequence.

As for visas and refugees to the Gulf, double lol... Don't forget many of those fleeing are Shia so the Saudis see the Med' sinkings as God's own handy work.

 

[choffer]

TL;DR warning......

 

I'm sure the veracity of these facts will probably be debated but having seen the various conversations about refugees so many times in the last few weeks (both on here and elsewhere) I thought the below might be helpful. (Sauce)

Today the Government has published its migration statistics for the year ending June 2015.

As we are all aware, the truth about asylum is often in short supply, with the same old myths and scare stories peddled again and again.

At the Refugee Council, we believe it’s time to put that right. Here are our top 15 facts based on the latest asylum stats.

1. Asylum seekers make up a tiny proportion of new arrivals in Britain. Today’s statistics show that 330,000 people arrived in Britain during the course of the year – asylum seekers coming to Britain escaping persecution made up just 10% of that figure. Of course, not all asylum seekers will be granted permission to stay in Britain.

2. Britain is not Europe’s top recipient of asylum applications. Together, Germany and Sweden receive almost half of all applications made in the EU.

In the year ending June 2015, Britain received just 4% of all asylum claims made in the EU.

Germany, Sweden, France, Hungary, Italy and Austria all receive significantly more applications than we do.

3. More people arrived in Greece in July 2015 alone than have claimed asylum in Britain all year.

4. Asylum applications to the UK remain low: in the year ending June 2015, 25,771applications were received in Britain, 32,508 including dependants. Given the world is in the grips of the greatest refugee crisis since the Second World War, few people are making it to the Britain in their search for safety.

Here are the long term trends in the number of asylum applications we receive.

5. World events often correlate directly with asylum applications. Unrest in Syria and South Sudan and a new wave of people fleeing tyranny in Eritrea led to rises in applications from those nationalities. The top 5 nationalities applying for asylum in the year ending June 2015 were:

•    Eritrea
•    Pakistan
•    Syria
•    Iran
•    Sudan

6. 41% of initial decisions made in this time period were grants of some form of protection.

7. However, many refugees had to rely on the courts rather than the Government to provide them with the protection they needed. The proportion of asylum appeals allowed in the year ending June 2015 increased to 30%. Women were more likely to win on appeal than men, with 33% of appeals by women allowed compared to 28% of appeals by men.

7. Appallingly, dodgy new guidelines mean there has been a significant drop in the number of Eritrean people being granted refugee status in Britain. Grants of protection on Eritrean claims fell from 73% in the first quarter of 2015 to 34% in the second quarter of 2015. Read more here: http://bit.ly/1PVEpl3  

8. There was a fall in the number of unaccompanied children granted protection, down from 72% during the same period last year to 67% in the year ending June 2015. Sadly, this protection usually expires after 2.5 years and many children will not be given further leave.

9. The number of Syrian refugees resettled in Britain stood at just 216 since the conflict began. A pathetic number, as the total number of Syrian refugees reaches nearly 4.1 million. Britain can and should be doing so much more to help.

10. And the number of Syrians who have sought asylum in Britain since the conflict began stands at just over 7,000. In 2015 alone, Germany has so far received over 44,400 asylum applications from Syrians. Like most of the world’s refugees, very few Syrians make it to Britain in their search for safety. 

11. The backlog in cases awaiting a decision rose 2% to 21,604 compared to the same time period last year. Each one of these cases represents a person stuck living in limbo, anxiously awaiting news of their fate.

13. At the end of the year ending June 2015, 30,457 asylum seekers and their dependants were being supported by the Government. This figure has increased each quarter since the end of September 2012, but is still below the figure for end of 2003 when there were 80,123 asylum seekers being supported. This does not mean asylum seekers lives in luxury; far from it; people have no say in where they live and are often left to survive on around £5 a day.

14. At the end of June 2015, 14,639 asylum seekers were locked up inside detention centres. Shamefully, around half of all asylum seekers find themselves detained at some point during the process. Despite the Government’s 2010 pledge to end child detention for immigration purposes, 155 children were imprisoned during the last year. Well over half of the children who left detention were released, rendering their detention not only harmful but futile.

15 In the last year, just 809 refugees were resettled in Britain via programmes run in conjunction with the UN’s Refugee Agency (UNHCR) and through the British Government’s own Syrian Vulnerable Person’s Relocation scheme. A truly woeful number given other countries resettle thousands of refugees. UNHCR estimates there are around 1 million refugees around the world in desperate need of a resettlement place.

Edited September 3, 2015 by choffer
Formatting

[Nabby]

We can do more as a nation by making their home country a safe place to live .. of course that is easier said than done 

In terms of migrants coming here it's no real big deal in reasonable numbers , but I've seen figures of 800,000 for Germany and I'm not sure the UK could cope with an influx like that ? but surely Muslim migrants would be better off going to the Gulf states than Europe , they would integrate much easier in other Muslim or Arab states .. how many are Dubai taking in I wonder ?

 

There is currently a big exodus of migrants coming out of Burma .. around  half a million is the estimate  , interestingly we aren't hearing anything about this in the news over here .. I guess out of sight out of mind ??

 

 

Well Germany do need people to come to the country ...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/03/27/uk-germany-immigration-idUKKBN0MN1T820150327

We do need to do more as a country certainly visually as the 900mil we give in aid to this situation is not seen and is forgotton about.Taking people from the camps is a step in right direction has said above taking the ones travelling across countries illegally will send the wrong message.It will just invite more to cross europe and take base at Calais to try and get in.The EU essentially saying all are welcome is going to cause immense issue's for example deciding who is classed as a refugee and who is an immigrant.

I think this will see the further demise of the EU.They want the countries to act as one but at look at the differance in opinion on the situation from Hungry who want nothing to do with the refugee's to Germany with is open arms invite.Also its all well saying that the countries need to share the burden but A) not all the countries are up to it , Spain for example say they have their own high unemployment and can't take more people in dependant on the state and B ) the refugee's /migrants have their own idea of what countries they want to go to.As it is you likes of Romanians and Bulgarians leaving their own countries to obtain better jobs in Germany /Uk etc so can those countries be expected to take people and will they even want to go there and no try and move across borders if sent there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[OutByEaster?]

The thing is the UK pays the second highest amount in foreign aid in the world yet it never seems to get through to nearly enough people to help them out.  When there are batshit evil pricks running riot in the Middle East then there's nothing you can really do except ultimately try to annihilate them.  Then history repeats itself.  Perhaps if the EU could come to some sort of agreement to allow temporary controls over freedom of movement within the EU, then it would be easier to redistribute refugees as at the moment the UK population is adding a new city's worth of people each year already.

The majority of foreign aid is military aid - we take money from the general public through the collection of taxes, we then give it foreign countries who buy our very expensive fighter jets and the money ends up in the hands of a few very rich industrialists. Annihilating our customer base isn't a solution. 

Edited September 3, 2015 by OutByEaster?