villa89 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 he's 7th in Europe's top leagues in terms of clearances, which is pretty damn good and he did make Whoscored's team of the week too, despite the error. What does this actually mean? I think I already know the answer and it's sweet F.A. Football's not a statistical game. It's not cricket, it's not American Football, it's not baseball. Just because the media spout stats incessantly and there's a Prozone/Stats craze at the moment doesn't make them valid. If you want to judge a player, watch him play. Don't look at his stats. Spoiler: Clark is playing badly so far this season. As for Ilori, wouldn't be so funny if he turned out to be brilliant and we activated his buyout clause from Liverpool to get him for a tenth of what he was actually worth. The black armbands would be out then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 4, 2015 Moderator Share Posted September 4, 2015 I'm not saying he played badly, but he makes too many mistakes and has done over a prolonged period of time. He has cost us two goals in two games.I fully expect him to lose his place and will be very disappointed if he doesn't.Had we signed Clark rather than him come through the club I think the criticism of him would be far far greater and more wide spread.Yeah it probably would be but I think it's natural to want the players we've developed to come good and turn a blind eye now and then. Clark has received a lot of abuse over the years too though. And deserved it. Had we had a decent side these last few years he wouldn't have been playing. It is natural but its frustrating when players aren't subject to the same conditions or judgements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 he's 7th in Europe's top leagues in terms of clearances, which is pretty damn good and he did make Whoscored's team of the week too, despite the error. What does this actually mean? I think I already know the answer and it's sweet F.A. Football's not a statistical game. It's not cricket, it's not American Football, it's not baseball. Just because the media spout stats incessantly and there's a Prozone/Stats craze at the moment doesn't make them valid. If you want to judge a player, watch him play. Don't look at his stats. You seemingly just missed the other things I wrote. I very clearly stated that I based my opinion on him from watching him play football. Seriously, how much were you spoiling for an argument you actually just missed that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I'm not saying he played badly, but he makes too many mistakes and has done over a prolonged period of time. He has cost us two goals in two games.I fully expect him to lose his place and will be very disappointed if he doesn't.Had we signed Clark rather than him come through the club I think the criticism of him would be far far greater and more wide spread.Yeah it probably would be but I think it's natural to want the players we've developed to come good and turn a blind eye now and then. Clark has received a lot of abuse over the years too though. And deserved it. Had we had a decent side these last few years he wouldn't have been playing. It is natural but its frustrating when players aren't subject to the same conditions or judgements.Maybe - maybe if he'd had decent defenders around him we would have kicked on more. All what ifs, though. Whatever the case, let's just hope he plays well for us in the future, same with Ilori. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 The attitude to statistics in evaluating players is very puzzling in this thread. It's all a bit men-in-overcoats, jumpers-for-goalposts really. Why do you think we hired that Almstadt guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 4, 2015 Moderator Share Posted September 4, 2015 The attitude to statistics in evaluating players is very puzzling in this thread. It's all a bit men-in-overcoats, jumpers-for-goalposts really. Why do you think we hired that Almstadt guy? Errors leading to goals is a calculable stat. 'Danger zone influence' both defensive and attacking is also quantifiable. I'd say we hired him because of his impressive abacus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I know, I'm agreeing. Statistics are both calculable and important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 4, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 4, 2015 I know, I'm agreeing. Statistics are both calculable and important. They're incredibly useful, but I think people (fans) sometimes rely upon them too much. Claiming Clark has performed well and citing a stat for clearances, for example, is a really weak use of stats (imo) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) I had actually forgotten about the Palace "error" so I now see why people are losing their kittens. 1 mistake is a VT meltdown, 2 mistakes in 2 weeks and its VT armaggedon. There is some stats for ya!Trent - before you retort in derision I know you are basing this on a longer term view of his career as a whole.Without going back to look at it I have the Palace "error" as being a foul by Dann that wasnt given. I seem to remember he had his hand on Clarks shirt/chest so he couldnt get off the ground and Dann also used him for leverage to get as high as he did. You could argue that its a lack of professional nous or whatever on Clarks part but a foul is a foul.I may well be biased there or I may have made it all up as I was pretty pissed that day. Edited September 4, 2015 by villaglint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I know, I'm agreeing. Statistics are both calculable and important. They're incredibly useful, but I think people (fans) sometimes rely upon them too much. Claiming Clark has performed well and citing a stat for clearances, for example, is a really weak use of stats (imo)Good job I never did that then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 4, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 4, 2015 I didn't say you did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 4, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) I had actually forgotten about the Palace "error" so I now see why people are losing their kittens. 1 mistake is a VT meltdown, 2 mistakes in 2 weeks and its VT armaggedon. There is some stats for ya!Trent - before you retort in derision I know you are basing this on a longer term view of his career as a whole.Without going back to look at it I have the Palace "error" as being a foul by Dann that wasnt given. I seem to remember he had his hand on Clarks shirt/chest so he couldnt get off the ground and Dann also used him for leverage to get as high as he did. You could argue that its a lack of professional nous or whatever on Clarks part but a foul is a foul.I may well be biased there or I may have made it all up as I was pretty pissed that day. You're biased.I like Clark, he's certainly done better than some people are making out. But that was awful defending vs Dann. It was Clark doing the shirt pulling and he didn't even try to get off the ground. Terrible Edited September 4, 2015 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 So can this guy play right back? How is he getting forward?A line up of [Amavi - Lescott - Richards - Ilori] seems pretty solid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Which stat measures grit, determination, fight, know-how, nous? Asking for my mate Tony.On Ilori - really happy he is here and fighting for a starting spot. Guess we won't know where he is playing until TS gives him a chance. I wouldn't read too much into his squad number. Edited September 4, 2015 by omariqy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Which stat measures grit, determination, fight, know-how, nous? Asking for my mate Tony.On Ilori - really happy he is here and fighting for a starting spot. Guess we won't know where he is playing until TS gives him a chance. I wouldn't read too much into his squad number.Having great grit, determination, fight and know-how/nous would lead to improved statistics. Tell Tony he's welcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracker1234 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Eros @erosp22 5m5 minutes agoGorizia, Friuli-Venezia Giulia Alessandro Costacurta on Sky Italia: "Portugal have a great defender, Tiago Ilori. He is phenomenal". Tell that to Brendan Rodgers #LFC We could have stole another gem by the sounds of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Eros @erosp22 5m5 minutes agoGorizia, Friuli-Venezia Giulia Alessandro Costacurta on Sky Italia: "Portugal have a great defender, Tiago Ilori. He is phenomenal". Tell that to Brendan Rodgers #LFC We could have stole another gem by the sounds of it. I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and say that Costacurta could spot a decent defender. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieZ Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Eros @erosp22 5m5 minutes agoGorizia, Friuli-Venezia Giulia Alessandro Costacurta on Sky Italia: "Portugal have a great defender, Tiago Ilori. He is phenomenal". Tell that to Brendan Rodgers #LFC We could have stole another gem by the sounds of it. I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and say that Costacurta could spot a decent defender. Do you have any statistics to back that up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Eros @erosp22 5m5 minutes agoGorizia, Friuli-Venezia GiuliaAlessandro Costacurta on Sky Italia: "Portugal have a great defender, Tiago Ilori. He is phenomenal". Tell that to Brendan Rodgers #LFC We could have stole another gem by the sounds of it. How about don't tell him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 We haven't stole a gem he's still a Liverpool playerIf he turns out to be half decent i'm sure he will be back there at the end of the season regardless of the option to buy clause 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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