Adama Traore

[Dr_Pangloss]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

7 minutes. I think seasoned professionals proven at this level would struggle to change a game in the last 7 minutes. 

Yep. Again brought on too late.

[a m ole]

I don't think he should be starting but it's very hard for him to make an impression and contribute as he's come on at times when the oppositions only intention is seeing out the current result.

Having said that, I suspect that had Sanchez not been injured and Gil already on, he'd have had a chance earlier as a substitute for Sanchez, Gana or Westwood. Can't really call out Garde as we were already on top in the second half and bringing him on meant another formation change.

Edited December 26, 2015 by a m ole

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Bring in a goalscorer and we'll start flying up the league. I hope we've got someone lined up to come early in January.

Doubt it, our defence will still be weak when people run at them. In any case we're already 10 points off even 17th so that's a very optimistic statement. 

9 points.

[OutByEaster?]

It's very difficult in our current formation with the four central midfielders to bring him on without disrupting other things - the nearest natural substitution you can make is for Ayew or Gestede. In today's game, we needed Gestede as a focal point and Ayew just isn't someone you'd want to take off. So in order to accommodate him you have to change the shape. 

When we brought him on today, how many of you were running through your head a list of names that might come off for him? It's not easy.

We went with Veretout and it didn't work - not so much because Traore didn't perform, but because without Veretout in addition to the other midfielders, we were no longer able to keep the ball and use it well. It unstitched us and we lost control of the middle of the park. Traore isn't to blame for that, it's not his job - but it meant that when he came on, we were weaker.

I like him, I think he's fantastically talented, I think he's raw as raw can be, but I think he's got something special - but, it's really difficult to work out how we're going to use him at this point without putting everything else out of kilter. Without the four midfielders, we're too lightweight to control play - without play, we can't do anything with him. Until we get stronger, bigger midfield players who can run with powerful opposition, then I think Adama will need to get used to short cameo performances.

Tactically, I'd have taken Gil off for him - but that is harsh on player who was already a sub and was getting better as the game went on.

 

 

[andym]

I could understand why Garde left it until the last 10 minutes to make a sub, as prior to that we were on top and dominating the game, and as OBE says, do you change something that is working pretty well. We then started to run out of steam a bit, so Garde made the change, but even then, i think he was stood on the side waiting to come on for a few minutes as we kept the ball and kept the pressure on.

Unfortunately, given we had spent most of the half forcing West Ham back and to sit deeper, that actually hindered Adama when he finally came on, as he had little space to work with.

[KSV]

i thought i saw a difference off the ball too with him... I could have sworn i saw him tracking back and making a tackle. Maybe Garde is getting through to him?

[sexbelowsound]

4 hours ago, KSV said:

i thought i saw a difference off the ball too with him... I could have sworn i saw him tracking back and making a tackle. Maybe Garde is getting through to him?

This is something I think people are forgetting. Garde has clearly said that unless Adama is going to be Messi he needs to play for the team.

I agree with this 100%. I don't want to see Mr Wembley Singles on the pitch for any longer than he is getting at the moment until he learns to do that.

Its the team that is going to save us. Not Adama.

[DCJonah]

7 hours ago, KSV said:

i thought i saw a difference off the ball too with him... I could have sworn i saw him tracking back and making a tackle. Maybe Garde is getting through to him?

The guy spent years at the best footballing academy on the planet. I'm not sure a couple of months with Remi Garde is changing him. I think people just see what they want to see with this guy. 

Mr Wembley singles? When he's made the odd 5-6 minute cameo in games we are never winning. Ridiculous. 

 

[Zatman]

10 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

9 points.

Its 9 plus goal difference

[KSV]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

The guy spent years at the best footballing academy on the planet. I'm not sure a couple of months with Remi Garde is changing him. I think people just see what they want to see with this guy. 

Mr Wembley singles? When he's made the odd 5-6 minute cameo in games we are never winning. Ridiculous. 

 

Sometimes some people get through when others could not.  Maybe Adama is realising this and maturing. We don't know. But I saw him track back and try and win the ball back. I haven't seen him do that.  Hardly seeing what I want to see 

[sexbelowsound]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

The guy spent years at the best footballing academy on the planet. I'm not sure a couple of months with Remi Garde is changing him. I think people just see what they want to see with this guy. 

Mr Wembley singles? When he's made the odd 5-6 minute cameo in games we are never winning. Ridiculous. 

 

For his age I would seriously hope a couple of months with a new manager is changing him.

otherwise the implication is that he thinks he doesn't need to learn from anyone else and that he is the finished article.

[Sam3773]

I think we'll see more of him tomorrow or next Saturday. Difficult to keep the same starting lineup with how close together these fixtures are.

Need squad rotation a bit to avoid injuries which could mean a start for Adama and others.

[VillaChris]

10 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's very difficult in our current formation with the four central midfielders to bring him on without disrupting other things - the nearest natural substitution you can make is for Ayew or Gestede. In today's game, we needed Gestede as a focal point and Ayew just isn't someone you'd want to take off. So in order to accommodate him you have to change the shape. 

When we brought him on today, how many of you were running through your head a list of names that might come off for him? It's not easy.

We went with Veretout and it didn't work - not so much because Traore didn't perform, but because without Veretout in addition to the other midfielders, we were no longer able to keep the ball and use it well. It unstitched us and we lost control of the middle of the park. Traore isn't to blame for that, it's not his job - but it meant that when he came on, we were weaker.

I like him, I think he's fantastically talented, I think he's raw as raw can be, but I think he's got something special - but, it's really difficult to work out how we're going to use him at this point without putting everything else out of kilter. Without the four midfielders, we're too lightweight to control play - without play, we can't do anything with him. Until we get stronger, bigger midfield players who can run with powerful opposition, then I think Adama will need to get used to short cameo performances.

Tactically, I'd have taken Gil off for him - but that is harsh on player who was already a sub and was getting better as the game went on.

 

 

We're not going to win many games playing 4 central midfielders though....particularly as Veretout looks to be the only one who might actually score a goal second half of the season.

As I've said elsewhere Remi is sooner or later going to have to start putting more offensively minded attacking line ups from the start, how late will he leave it?

It was only a few weeks ago we were playing 4-3-3 and all the endless starts Sinclair was getting so we should go back to that at least before too long but with Adama starting.

For midfield stick Sanchez and Gueye infront of the back 4 and play Veretout advanced of that....that was what Remi did for first few games but he ditched it after either Everton or Watford....I do think we look a bit more stable in the back 4 last few games as Lescott has actually improved a bit.

[avfctom89]

Well with Sanchez potentially injured he might well be forced back to a 4,3,3 with Westwood gana and Veretout. Which leaves a position free with ayew and Gestede. Hopefully adama gets game time in a front 3 . Him or gil I suspect 

[WooJung]

29 minutes ago, avfctom89 said:

Well with Sanchez potentially injured he might well be forced back to a 4,3,3 with Westwood gana and Veretout. Which leaves a position free with ayew and Gestede. Hopefully adama gets game time in a front 3 . Him or gil I suspect 

It will probably be Gil, he's much more a team player than Adama, who I suspect we'll only see as an impact sub for a long time (unless he comes on and scores a brace).

[avfctom89]

Yeah I agree but I don't think gil did enough yesterday so hopefully adama gets half an hour rather then the usual 7 or so minutes.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Its 9 plus goal difference

If by some miracle we manage to make up 9 points I'm not too concerned about the goal difference. Worry about that when we get there, moving the goalposts at this stage is unproductive. 

Adama - I saw something very alarming yesterday. He went on a little run, the ball went out for a goal kick (I think) and Ayew had to grab his attention and wave him back maniacally. You could sense Ayew's frustration. He'd only been on the pitch 2 minutes.

That's not good enough and if his team mates don't trust him, well, it's a problem. I'm no longer surprised he's not starting games. On the flip side they tend to give the ball to him as much as possible! He's an enigma for sure, one I hope Remi can solve. 

[VillanousOne]

well surely when Gana dissappears late in the game that's the time to bring Traore on.

We can argue round the houses about why we can't play Traore or who he can't replace, but all the time we aren't winning it feels a pointless argument. We have to take risks to win.

[Guest av1]

41 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

If by some miracle we manage to make up 9 points I'm not too concerned about the goal difference. Worry about that when we get there, moving the goalposts at this stage is unproductive. 

Adama - I saw something very alarming yesterday. He went on a little run, the ball went out for a goal kick (I think) and Ayew had to grab his attention and wave him back maniacally. You could sense Ayew's frustration. He'd only been on the pitch 2 minutes.

That's not good enough and if his team mates don't trust him, well, it's a problem. I'm no longer surprised he's not starting games. On the flip side they tend to give the ball to him as much as possible! He's an enigma for sure, one I hope Remi can solve. 

Yes I thought that to. I was one of those screaming for him to come on yesterday, but the gesticulating from Ayew kind of made me wonder if the squad aren't to appreciative of his attitude. 

Maybe we are both reading to much into that, but I agree that it looked a little more than simply trying to motivate a team mate. And the worry is, if Barcelona could not teach him to pass a ball and embrace a team ethos then its going to take a little more than "a few months on the training ground"

There was a couple of guys in front of me yesterday talking about the merits of bringing Troare on, one didn't think he should come on, and (like OBE above) gave good reasoning for his thinking. The other, like many on here, replied with 'I don't care, we haven't won all year, we are bottom of the league and can't score a goal, we are in the shit and need to take chances'

I could understand both of their arguments and I'm still not sure which view I take. 

 

 

[tinker]

Unfortunately the way Adama is marked out of games, by at least 2 opposition players, hes not going to be very effective on the ball. We need other players to use the space they leave by marking him. For me when he comes on we need Grealish on as well, last 10-15 minutes of a game we need to win..........