Adama Traore

[sexbelowsound]

Just now, rubberman said:

 

Panto season?

Not quite. I'll change it for you.

[rubberman]

Heh.  Thanks!

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

You're essentially saying Garde might as well just play the U21s in a game because, if we lose, it's not any different than before.  Nonsense.

Err..No I'm not. 

I'm saying a player who has shown glimpses of being able to cause the opposition problems, should be given the chance to play. The fear of losing (something we've done 11 out of 15 times this year) isn't something that should prevent us from trying an option that has the potential to help turn our fortunes around. 

Good interpretation though. 

[bobzy]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Err..No I'm not. 

I'm saying a player who has shown glimpses of being able to cause the opposition problems, should be given the chance to play. The fear of losing (something we've done 11 out of 15 times this year) isn't something that should prevent us from trying an option that has the potential to help turn our fortunes around. 

Good interpretation though. 

That's not what you said though?  You said if he starts and he's crap and we lose, then it's no different to any other loss this season.

FWIW I want to see Traore given more game time, but not for reasons that matched your initial logic at all. I want to see him play more because he's got the potential to cause defences problems.  I don't just want to lump him in because "why not".

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

That's not what you said though?  You said if he starts and he's crap and we lose, then it's no different to any other loss this season.

FWIW I want to see Traore given more game time, but not for reasons that matched your initial logic at all. I want to see him play more because he's got the potential to cause defences problems.  I don't just want to lump him in because "why not".

I've made plenty of posts about the potential he has. I don't feel like I need to make that clear in every post for the likes of yourself. My view on Adama is not just why not. 

Like I said, good interpretation. 

[AvfcTheObsession]

9 hours ago, villan_007 said:

I genuinely don't see how you can't agree with Garde here. I think he is absolutely right.

The kid is utter pants at the game, apart from running at pace with the ball and a few step overs.

Take his first minute dash at goal out of his Arsenal performance and he looked like a body building fan pulled out the crowd for the last few minutes. Crap step overs with one going out for a throw in, and then completely confused when he has do anything else but sprint.

At present he is an over developed 11 yr old, and a complete waste of money. He is two seasons off being ready for this league.

At this moment we can't carry a player like that.

Thing is, his one dash nearly led to a goal, and he was only on the field 5 minutes. I don't think you can take his main attribute out of his performance, then judge him.

If he was on the field for longer, he'd have a few dashes at goal and one or more could quite easily lead to a goal or assist.

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, AvfcTheObsession said:

Thing is, his one dash nearly led to a goal, and he was only on the field 5 minutes. I don't think you can take his main attribute out of his performance, then judge him.

If he was on the field for longer, he'd have a few dashes at goal and one or more could quite easily lead to a goal or assist.

I'm not so sure.

So far every time he's come on he's had one amazing run, and then been smothered by the opponents. The same happened vs Watford. He came on, took them by surprise, then Capoue just sat on him and he did nothing for the rest of the game.

Same against Arsenal, he did that run, then he got the ball a few times after that and Arsenal immediately had people close and he had nothing to run into and was smothered.

It sounds like I'm against Traore. I'm not. He's one of the most exciting players I've ever seen at Villa. But I think people are expecting slightly too much of him.
Don't get me wrong, if he makes 10 of those amazing runs against Newcastle then I'll be working hard to keep my pants on! But I think his current style means once opponents identify him as a major threat he's effectively nullified. 

That being said, liek I said in the match thread, newcastle's defence looks incredibly suspect. So if there's any team in the league we should be giving Adam some significant game time against, it's them.

[Zatman]

I would fancy Traore to give Dummett a nightmare on Saturday if he is allowed off the leash

[AvfcTheObsession]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm not so sure.

So far every time he's come on he's had one amazing run, and then been smothered by the opponents. The same happened vs Watford. He came on, took them by surprise, then Capoue just sat on him and he did nothing for the rest of the game.

Same against Arsenal, he did that run, then he got the ball a few times after that and Arsenal immediately had people close and he had nothing to run into and was smothered.

It sounds like I'm against Traore. I'm not. He's one of the most exciting players I've ever seen at Villa. But I think people are expecting slightly too much of him.
Don't get me wrong, if he makes 10 of those amazing runs against Newcastle then I'll be working hard to keep my pants on! But I think his current style means once opponents identify him as a major threat he's effectively nullified. 

That being said, liek I said in the match thread, newcastle's defence looks incredibly suspect. So if there's any team in the league we should be giving Adam some significant game time against, it's them.

It is a difficult one, because we haven't seen him on the field against PL opposition for longer than 20-30 mins at a time.

Against Arsenal I can only remember him getting the ball another couple of times after his run, and he passed it or there was the occasion he ran it out of play. At the moment though he is having to make things happen without even being in attacking positions, because we are deep and are not forcing the opposition back.

I do think though that he's that quick, and strong, that opponents shouldn't be able to nullify him, even if they know what to expect.

[supermon]

After Garde's comments, I don't see Adama starting v Newcastle.

[KHV]

1 hour ago, supermon said:

After Garde's comments, I don't see Adama starting v Newcastle.

I don't think we want to trigger the wage clause either to be honest, not now we are going down

[Stevo985]

9 minutes ago, KHV said:

I don't think we want to trigger the wage clause either to be honest, not now we are going down

 

On 12/17/2015 at 00:29, Stevo985 said:

Fox addressed the wage rumours in an interview with Tom Ross.

The question put to him was whether there was truth in the rumour that we couldn't play Adama because we couldn't afford to (I assume because of some appearance based clause) and I think, although I'm reading between the lines, that Fox answered the question also addressing the rumours that he's on 75k a week or whatever.

He said something along the lines of

"I don't know where those rumour started." "Nobody has sight of the player's contract apart from those inside the club." "There's no way he can be our most expensive player no matter how many times he starts" "[money] is nothing to do with whether he is or isn't in the team"

Again you may choose not to believe Fox on that issue, but he was very clear about it.

It would be a bare faced lie from Fox if wages are anything to do with Adama's selection.

Now I'm not naive enough to think that Fox would never "spin" anything or be liberal with the truth. But I'm not sure he would come out in a public interview and tell a categorical lie like that.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Stevo985

[KHV]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

 

Again you may choose not to believe Fox on that issue, but he was very clear about it.

It would be a bare faced lie from Fox if wages are anything to do with Adama's selection.

Now I'm not naive enough to think that Fox would never "spin" anything or be liberal with the truth. But I'm not sure he would come out in a public interview and tell a categorical lie like that.

Im not convinced by anything that comes out of Villa Park, his contract was widely reported by many outlets so it must have come from somewhere and I would imagine prizing away a potential Barcelona superstar would not come cheaply. The cynic in me thinks that it's more likely we can't afford it now we look odds on to go down. He is probably the only player with the ability to save us. He is the only player we have that's worth watching, if Garde wants to persist with Sinclair, Gestede and Grealish instead then that's up to him. It will get him nowehere

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, KHV said:

Im not convinced by anything that comes out of Villa Park, his contract was widely reported by many outlets so it must have come from somewhere and I would imagine prizing away a potential Barcelona superstar would not come cheaply. The cynic in me thinks that it's more likely we can't afford it now we look odds on to go down. He is probably the only player with the ability to save us. He is the only player we have that's worth watching, if Garde wants to persist with Sinclair, Gestede and Grealish instead then that's up to him. It will get him nowehere

So you're not willing to believe anything that comes out of Villa Park, even if it's straight from the horse's mouth.

But you are willing to believe what the media have printed, even though there are no quotes or any evidence to back it up.

Can you see how that makes you look slightly biased to one point of view?

We've already signed Adama. We're already paying him. Whether or not we can or can't afford him is a moot point. We're paying him anyway. It doesn't make sense that that is why he's not being picked more regularly.

What does make sense is footballing reasons as others have already outlined.

[Dr_Pangloss]

On the one hand I understand Garde's comments, Traore is underdeveloped in some key areas. However on the other hand, all of the players who have played in that position this season have been absolutely shite and have not contributed enough. So I'm still not convinced about the rationale as to why Traore shouldn't be playing. 

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm not so sure.

So far every time he's come on he's had one amazing run, and then been smothered by the opponents. The same happened vs Watford. He came on, took them by surprise, then Capoue just sat on him and he did nothing for the rest of the game.

Same against Arsenal, he did that run, then he got the ball a few times after that and Arsenal immediately had people close and he had nothing to run into and was smothered.

It sounds like I'm against Traore. I'm not. He's one of the most exciting players I've ever seen at Villa. But I think people are expecting slightly too much of him.
Don't get me wrong, if he makes 10 of those amazing runs against Newcastle then I'll be working hard to keep my pants on! But I think his current style means once opponents identify him as a major threat he's effectively nullified. 

That being said, liek I said in the match thread, newcastle's defence looks incredibly suspect. So if there's any team in the league we should be giving Adam some significant game time against, it's them.

I didn't think that happened against Watford. He got a couple of crosses in, won a corner and a free kick and looked threatening. 

Teams may double up on him but surely that's a positive. Surely the manager should be using that as an advantage to create space in other areas of the pitch. 

The problem is we don't play many quality players up there. If we had Grealish, Gil and Adama playing, then doubling on on Adama leaves more space for Gil and Grealish to attack. 

We're just always set up to be stopped easily. We need to take more of a risk with the attacking players we select. 

I hope Garde doesn't take the Lambert and Mcleish approach, with being far too scared about losing. 

[srsmithusa]

the funny thing about rubberman's post where he quotes villa89 saying essentially "Yeah, we are down" and sexbelowsound saying "no, we aren't"  Is that it sounds just like what's been repeating painfully in my head for the past 5 weeks.

[Richard]

I'd argue he is currently our most threatening and exciting player.  If he does not start the game tomorrow theni t's more evidence to me that this club is a shambles and Garde is poor manager

[Czechlad]

3 minutes ago, Richard said:

I'd argue he is currently our most threatening and exciting player.  If he does not start the game tomorrow theni t's more evidence to me that this club is a shambles and Garde is poor manager

Super extreme remark 

[powell91]

I agree with garde from a development pov that we should take our time with him because he is a very raw talent however like previous people mentioned competition for places in this team isn't exactly high  so he should  be playing more than he is.