Jordan Veretout

[BOF]

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

Nantes will be pissed off that like most weeks he is starting for St.Etienne tonight   

Oh bugger Thankfully they're even worse. 

[hippo]

17 hours ago, TB said:

Young player playing his first game in an unfamiliar league, with little language skills and a manager that apparently didn't speak to him at all during his first month at the club.

But sure, it's all down to the player.

So struggling under two managers that proved unable to perform - one in utterly failing in the most basic terms of pre-season training, team spirit and tactical awareness, the other unable to turn the results sufficiently around to be allowed to bring in some of his own players - is additional proof in your case against Veretout?

For me, this isn't about whether Veretout was good enough/didn't want to be here/etc. It's about Villa not giving new players what they need to perform to the best of their ability.

I'd think anyone struggling to impress during last season might be given a little leeway, especially with the benefit of hindsight.

A club of Villa's stature really should have someone at the club helping new players, especially from abroad, to settle quickly.

Oh...

Jesus - what would Sammy Morgan , Andy Lochead  or Ron Saunders think of that. ?

Its a mans games - MTFU. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by hippo

[osmark86]

8 minutes ago, hippo said:

Jesus - what would Sammy Morgan , Andy Lochead  or Ron Saunders think of that. ?

Its a mans games - MTFU. 

Okay, so two scenarios.

1) Player's should man up, don't support them

2) Support the player's to get settled

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to opt for the second option? If a player doesn't need the support because the player has no issues in "manning up", then no problem all is good n stuff. If a player finds it a little bit harder to "man up", then we have the option to help that player out and we will likely get more out of the player and faster, high spirits and all that jazz.

Just my two cents.

[hippo]

4 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

Okay, so two scenarios.

1) Player's should man up, don't support them

2) Support the player's to get settled

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to opt for the second option? If a player doesn't need the support because the player has no issues in "manning up", then no problem all is good n stuff. If a player finds it a little bit harder to "man up", then we have the option to help that player out and we will likely get more out of the player and faster, high spirits and all that jazz.

Just my two cents.

Fair enough - but even if you did all that I think you still left with 2 problems:-

1-Motivation 

2- Ability 

 

[TB]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Jesus - what would Sammy Morgan , Andy Lochead  or Ron Saunders think of that. ?

Its a mans games - MTFU. 

That just tells me that we're apparently living in totally different eras. Sammy Morgan actually played in the Netherlands, so his thoughts on the subject would be interesting.

And IIRC George Best's first stint at Manchester United (albeit at 15) lasted two days before he returned back home, and he had to persuaded to give it another shot. I bet telling him to MTFU would have worked beautifully at  that point, as would telling JP Angel the same.

A couple of extracts from Vice Sports: Settling In, Kicking On: How Football Clubs Make New Players Feel Welcome:

Quote

"It's the weirdest thing ever" former Barcelona, Chelsea, and Liverpool player Boudewijn Zenden told Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski in their 2010 book Soccernomics, "that you can actually buy a player for £20m, and you don't do anything to make him feel at home." Kuper and Szymanski called the lack of investment clubs make in settling players after a transfer "one of the biggest inefficiencies in the transfer market."

Quote

Today, it seems Europe's top clubs have begun to come around, although the degree of off-field help a player gets following a transfer still varies by club, league, and country. In England, helping players settle is the responsibility of a team's player liaison officer. In Germany, it falls under the purview of a club's so-called team manager.

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by TB
typo

[osmark86]

4 hours ago, hippo said:

Fair enough - but even if you did all that I think you still left with 2 problems:-

1-Motivation 

2- Ability 

 

I agree on point 2 for sure :). I'm sure that motivation can be improved if players feel more comfortable and supported however. Not necessarily so, but it is possible.

[theboyangel]

We did have someone at the club, Lorna who was the liaison for new players settling in.

however she lost her job when we got relegated due to the job cuts.

All the players spoke highly of her. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 hours ago, TB said:

That just tells me that we're apparently living in totally different eras. Sammy Morgan actually played in the Netherlands, so his thoughts on the subject would be interesting.

And IIRC George Best's first stint at Manchester United (albeit at 15) lasted two days before he returned back home, and he had to persuaded to give it another shot. I bet telling him to MTFU would have worked beautifully at  that point, as would telling JP Angel the same.

A couple of extracts from Vice Sports: Settling In, Kicking On: How Football Clubs Make New Players Feel Welcome:

 

True, this is comparable to a good product with shite after sales and customer service.

Eventually you will go off the brand, or give up dealing with them.

[mikeyp102]

On 17/05/2017 at 15:16, TB said:

A club of Villa's stature really should have someone at the club helping new players, especially from abroad, to settle quickly.

 

Didn't we used to have someone who did this. I'm sure back the day, watching the Squaddies video and other comments from Angel saying we had someone who would arrange lifestyle when they first arrived from abroad. Guessing that was someone else who Lerner got rid of.

 

Getting back on topic, I'm pretty sure we'll never see veretout play for villa again and too be honest it doesn't bother me.

[TB]

3 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

Didn't we used to have someone who did this. I'm sure back the day, watching the Squaddies video and other comments from Angel saying we had someone who would arrange lifestyle when they first arrived from abroad. Guessing that was someone else who Lerner got rid of.

Yup. Aston Villa's player welfare and liaison officer role was the very first of its kind in the Premier League, created in 2002 to try to avoid new players struggling like Angel did.

That's why I added the second 'Oh...' line you forgot to quote.

 

3 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

Getting back on topic, I'm pretty sure we'll never see veretout play for villa again and too be honest it doesn't bother me.

Agree that he probably never will, but what does bother me more is that we may see future players fail to settle quickly.

[sidcow]

So she was here and working throughout Jordans time here? 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

5 hours ago, sidcow said:

So she was here and working throughout Jordans time here? 

NO.

I think she actually leftas a part of cut backs, the season before relegation, or even earlier?

Lerners cutbacks were ongoing for quite some time.

[villan_007]

She was one of the best in the business our Lorna! Criminal that she got the boot.

Spoke so many languages, helped players find homes and schools, and to learn English.

When she left we just drove players to the hotel and said see you at training.

Lerner....you utter scum bag.

[DaveAV1]

3 minutes ago, villan_007 said:

She was one of the best in the business our Lorna! Criminal that she got the boot.

Spoke so many languages, helped players find homes and schools, and to learn English.

When she left we just drove players to the hotel and said see you at training.

Lerner....you utter scum bag.

I remember reading a good article about Lorna. When her post was created at the club, it was a first and was hailed as a great progressive step in the right direction that was copied by all of the top clubs. Many clubs now have whole departments dedicated to players welfare, it is disgraceful that Lerner dismissed her and with her an innovative and necessary first that the club had introduced. It's not just on the pitch that Lerner almost destroyed us. 

[villan_007]

Just now, DaveAV1 said:

I remember reading a good article about Lorna. When her post was created at the club, it was a first and was hailed as a great progressive step in the right direction that was copied by all of the top clubs. Many clubs now have whole departments dedicated to players welfare, it is disgraceful that Lerner dismissed her and with her an innovative and necessary first that the club had introduced. It's not just on the pitch that Lerner almost destroyed us. 

100% Dave. I think it was this season or maybe last but SKY got her to come back to the villa and do an interview on how the process went and some of the troubles players face moving to new countries. I wonder what we have in place now for new players.

[Demitri_C]

I think there is a less than 1% chance he is coming back here. But cant see us loaning him again. I think we can obtain 8-10m for him otherwiae he remains and I think he will be a beast at this level 

[markavfc40]

16 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I think there is a less than 1% chance he is coming back here. But cant see us loaning him again. I think we can obtain 8-10m for him otherwiae he remains and I think he will be a beast at this level 

I think you're right with the need to generate funds I don’t see us loaning him out again.

He has had a decent season apparently so his stock should be quite high with clubs in France at least.

I don’t see us getting 8-10 mill for him though. I think we’ll be looking at more like 4-6 mill.

[Demitri_C]

32 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think you're right with the need to generate funds I don’t see us loaning him out again.

He has had a decent season apparently so his stock should be quite high with clubs in France at least.

I don’t see us getting 8-10 mill for him though. I think we’ll be looking at more like 4-6 mill.

i would not even entertain 4m, tbh mate i would rather keep him and offload tish if thats all we could get 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Demitri_C

[markavfc40]

38 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

i would not even entertain 4m, tbh mate i would rather keep him and offload tish if thats all we could get 

I am not sure what we’d be keeping him for though mate. I would be amazed if he wants to be here and his heart would be in playing in the Championship. We need players 100% committed and I don’t think he would be anything like that.

We could loan him out again but that brings no funds in and it also takes another year out of his contract and runs the risk that next season he doesn’t do so well and his stock falls.

Maybe you are right and we will get 8-10 mill for him but I just don’t see it and taking into account that he almost certainly doesn’t want to be here, and our need to balance the books and for money to bring players in then I think we would take 4-6 mil for him. It will depend how many clubs come in for him as well I guess as to how much we can push the fee up to.

[Stevo985]

On ‎18‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 09:03, hippo said:

Jesus - what would Sammy Morgan , Andy Lochead  or Ron Saunders think of that. ?

Its a mans games - MTFU. 

Macho bollocks.

 

Plenty of clubs literally have people who do this. As has been mentioned, we used to have it.

It really grinds my gears that people still don't get that players are actually human. Yes they get paid a lot of money, but no amount of money can necessarily fix things like settling into a new country, with new teammates, speaking a language you don't speak and having to play in a league you have no experience in.

We could have paid Veretout a million quid a day and it wouldn't make a difference.

And you could tell him to "man up" as much as you like, but it won't actually work.

 

 

As for the player, I saw enough in his time here, admittedly in flashes, to believe that there's a decent player in there. However I think there's little chance he'll come back here, even if we were in the Premier League, so it's probably best for all parties that we try and get a good deal for him to move back to France.