Popular Post Davkaus Posted March 21, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, The_Steve said: The only Black premier league manager sacked and his old club hire an old dinosaur. That will do wonders to encourage other Black coaches and managers the league is for them. It's really weird to make this about race. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Just now, Davkaus said: It's really weird to make this about race. It’s a problem though. The optics are very poor. Black coaches aren’t given the opportunities as is, Palace weren’t in danger despite having a terrible run of form. Why appoint Hodgson as interim then? They could have stuck with Viera until the end of the season. He was hampered also by a lack of investment in the squad. I don’t see how making such an unecessary sacking will help them in the long term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono62 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 They really should have gone for Sol Campbell or Dwight Yorke. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Just now, The_Steve said: It’s a problem though. The optics are very poor. Black coaches aren’t given the opportunities as is, Palace weren’t in danger despite having a terrible run of form. Why appoint Hodgson as interim then? They could have stuck with Viera until the end of the season. He was hampered also by a lack of investment in the squad. I don’t see how making such an unecessary sacking will help them in the long term. I can see the perspective that they sacked him at the wrong time. They've had a brutal run of fixtures; they haven't won since December, but we're the lowest ranked team they'd played in the league this year. I think he'd have turned it around in this next run of winnable games - but at the same time, if confidence is shot after those ~3 months without a win, they might have just not trusted that he can pick them back up for the easier games. I'm 50/50 on whether he should have been sacked, 100% in agreement that Hodgson is a dreadful appointment, but the optics of the racial equality in the PL is non of their concern. They should try and get the best person for the job, demographics be damned., As it happens, they've picked badly, IMO, but if Hodgson were a black dinosaur, I'm not sure it'd be any better an appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2023 Woy must know he's past it. He was looking done when he left Palace last time, his run with Watford was dire, he's 75 and not a young 75 either, he looks like he's got those miles on his soul. Vieira needed to go, you can't have a run like they've had without some accountability, but if you're going to get rid of him you need to do better than 'Woy, fancy topping up the pension for 3 months?'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Hodgson is in as a caretaker until the end of the season. I get why they went for him, the players know him, a lot of them will be familiar with his practices and they'll be able to pick up what he wants quickly. Their next six games are all six pointers (Leicester, Leeds, Southampton, Everton, Wolves, West Ham) and a good run there will see them safe. I guess they think something needed to change, the international break is time to do it and they weren't going to get a guy like Emery or Lopetegui in at short notice as they don't have the squad or resources that Villa and Wolves do. It will be interesting to see what Palace do in the summer. You'd think Zaha will be off as he's out of contract (but he is 30) and Eze isn't the player he was before the injury so they'll need a rebuild, but are they still committed to the progressive direction they started on a couple of years ago? It appeared to be working but does a couple of duff transfers (Edouard, Mateta) who can't score goals bring the entire thing crashing down? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, The_Steve said: It’s a problem though. The optics are very poor. Black coaches aren’t given the opportunities as is, Palace weren’t in danger despite having a terrible run of form. Why appoint Hodgson as interim then? They could have stuck with Viera until the end of the season. He was hampered also by a lack of investment in the squad. I don’t see how making such an unecessary sacking will help them in the long term. There's a problem with race in football, particularly around managerial opportunities. I'm just not sure this is a very good example of it. Palace are awful. They're 3 points off the relegation zone and haven't won for 11 (ELEVEN) games. The table is so tight down there they could easily be in the relegation zone in 2 or 3 weeks. To say they weren't in danger is being extremely generous There's absolutely nothing wrong with sacking Viera at this stage. Edited March 21, 2023 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Assistants like Ray Lewington make me laugh. Do you think they pencil in a cruise, followed by working with Roy, in the calendar? Getting the band back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2023 Roy has just given an interview. Apparently he's always admired Palace from afar and is keen to get in there and find out as much about the club as he can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 42 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: There's a problem with race in football, particularly around managerial opportunities. I'm just not sure this is a very good example of it. Palace are awful. They're 3 points off the relegation zone and haven't won for 11 (ELEVEN) games. The table is so tight down there they could easily be in the relegation zone in 2 or 3 weeks. To say they weren't in danger is being extremely generous There's absolutely nothing wrong with sacking Viera at this stage. And the fact they gave him the opportunity in the first place. The racial inequality blame game cannot be levelled at Palace for this. As for the rest of the PL, it's a product of the system that has been in place for the last decades. It is one that will get better over time, but there isn't a quick fix to hire experienced managers in the PL that are BAME because there aren't many that have the experience. It's a catch 22, and with the money involved in the PL, owners won't be taking unproven gambles unless they have no choice. With Vieira having done a decent job (that was ultimately hindered by under investment and ended by an evil unfortunate run of top half opposition). He should find himself given another position in the near future in the PL. You then have Kompany at Burnley doing well and Paul Ince doing pretty poorly at Reading, but still in the top two leagues. These type of roles, if doing well in them, will result in the PL opportunities in due course. Kompany going to find himself a PL manager by absolute right too. If you look at the result of Palace when they first hired Vieira there is an argument to give more such former players an opportunity, but even he was only a half gamble having managed in the US and then done ok in Ligue 1. There aren't many with the level of experience (and not having failed in their roles) around that PL clubs will be looking for, but the situation should continually improve. It doesn't appear to be improving fast enough though. I confess, I don't know much about any managers outside the top flight, let alone the ratio of managers with equivalent records where a BAME manager was overlooked for a role, but I expect it would highlight the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Where has this myth Palace didnt spend any money come from. They have received only money for Benteke in the last 2 seasons and that was probably about a couple of million. Since have signed Edouard, Mateta, Johnstone, Hughes, Olise, Doucoure, Guehi, Andersen and Richards. Probably have a higher net spend than us 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted March 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, Zatman said: Where has this myth Palace didnt spend any money come from. They have received only money for Benteke in the last 2 seasons and that was probably about a couple of million. Since have signed Edouard, Mateta, Johnstone, Hughes, Olise, Doucoure, Guehi, Andersen and Richards. Probably have a higher net spend than us https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-man-utd-man-city Quote 16) Crystal Palace: £-82.08m 22/23: £-36.36m 21/22: £-75.57m (12th) 20/21: £-2.12m (14th) 19/20: £42.17m (14th) 18/19: £-10.15m (12th) Aston Villa: £-271.24m 22/23: £-40.73m 21/22: £-2.47m (14th) 20/21: £-87.01m (11th) 19/20: £-138.13m (17th) 18/19: £-2.6m (5th in Championship) considering they've had over 500m of tv money through the door in that time, they've spent bugger all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy7211 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 This is an appalling appointment. Palace's problem this season is scoring goals. I don't think Hodgson's sides could be described as anything more positive than 'pragmatic'. Really expect them to continue sliding down the table now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Palace may stay up, but I can see them absolutely stinking the league out next year if they get the summer appointment wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 7 hours ago, The_Steve said: It’s a problem though. The optics are very poor. Black coaches aren’t given the opportunities as is, Palace weren’t in danger despite having a terrible run of form. Why appoint Hodgson as interim then? They could have stuck with Viera until the end of the season. He was hampered also by a lack of investment in the squad. I don’t see how making such an unecessary sacking will help them in the long term. Weren’t in danger? They haven’t won in 11 games, okay they’ve not been getting turned over regularly but consider then that they went 4 games without a shot on target - just consider the mood on this forum if Villa did that. They are 3 points above the relegation spots, they are bang in danger of going down. Without really caring much either way, I suppose I wanted it to work out better for him, he was a top quality player, a big name and icon of the Premier League, and that’s all before you get to him happening to be black. But the fact that he’s black shouldn’t influence whether or not he gets sacked, I’m confident that anyone would/could have been sacked in their position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornso Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 8 hours ago, tomav84 said: https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-man-utd-man-city considering they've had over 500m of tv money through the door in that time, they've spent bugger all Considering the amount of players they let leave on free transfers, the net spend is surprisingly low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC_Hitz Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 On 21/03/2023 at 11:12, The_Steve said: The only Black premier league manager sacked and his old club hire an old dinosaur. That will do wonders to encourage other Black coaches and managers the league is for them. Jean Tigana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 On 21/03/2023 at 12:22, The_Steve said: It’s a problem though. The optics are very poor. Black coaches aren’t given the opportunities as is, Palace weren’t in danger despite having a terrible run of form. Why appoint Hodgson as interim then? They could have stuck with Viera until the end of the season. He was hampered also by a lack of investment in the squad. I don’t see how making such an unecessary sacking will help them in the long term. Always think that the percentages should be declared to realise just how much of a problem it is Black people only make up around 3% of the UK population (with then Asian and other non white increasing that number obviously) What percentage of people with coaching badges are black? That would be the key stat for me, if it's less than 3% or even less than 1% why would there then be so much surprise at the lack of black coaches at PL level? And why is that percentage so low and then rather than any kind of Rooney rule why can't the FA incentivise or even more likely localise some initiatives that increases coaching take up in certain communities To me whenever it's raised it seems like it's approached top down when it really should be approached bottom up... But that could be because coaching in England in general is heavily focused on top down and ex players rather than bottom up and coaches at local level, you can probably link the demographics problem to the old fact that England was woefully behind on coaches compared to other top European countries (is that still a thing?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: Always think that the percentages should be declared to realise just how much of a problem it is Black people only make up around 3% of the UK population (with then Asian and other non white increasing that number obviously) What percentage of people with coaching badges are black? That would be the key stat for me, if it's less than 3% or even less than 1% why would there then be so much surprise at the lack of black coaches at PL level? And why is that percentage so low and then rather than any kind of Rooney rule why can't the FA incentivise or even more likely localise some initiatives that increases coaching take up in certain communities To me whenever it's raised it seems like it's approached top down when it really should be approached bottom up... But that could be because coaching in England in general is heavily focused on top down and ex players rather than bottom up and coaches at local level, you can probably link the demographics problem to the old fact that England was woefully behind on coaches compared to other top European countries (is that still a thing?) I'm not sure why the total proportion of the UK population would be the comparator? 43% of PL players are black, around 33% of EFL players, wouldn't they be more obvious comparators? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 33 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm not sure why the total proportion of the UK population would be the comparator? 43% of PL players are black, around 33% of EFL players, wouldn't they be more obvious comparators? Thats why I'd like to see the badges percentage, that's the key number If 33% of players are black but random number only 10% of badge holders what is causing that disparity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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