current affairs Nuclear War (next week?)

[villarule123]

I've got the popcorn on standby..

[The_Rev]

Ever played Civ?  If so: 

 

 

North Korea's trying to pull a Gandhi but they're just barely into the atomic age thanks to all those research agreements with china. Lately they've been spouting off a lot of "Just thought your army looked a bit on the weak side, better watch your back" to America, who puppeted Seoul fifty or so years ago and currently has the majority of the world's army and definitely the highest tech advantage. The problem is North Korea took Autocracy, doesn't have any luxury resources left, and all their gold is going to military upkeep. That policy choice has basically alienated the entire world, most of whom have gone Freedom. They've been swimming in unhappiness for a long-ass time so Pyonyang hasn't exactly been growing. Especially since they made the rather daft decision to replace all their farms with mines and forts, some of their smaller cities have starved down to less than 5 population.

Still, Russia and China have been propping them up a little bit over the last 50 turns or so just to keep America on its toes. Lately, North Korea has been throwing out denouncements like confetti and basically trying to demand luxury resources from America, hoping to offset its unhappiness.

Militarily, their threat is rather dubious compared to America's. While America has a sizeable combined force of Navy, Mechanized Infantry, Modern Armor, Jet Fighters, Stealth Bombers, and cruise missiles parked all over the pacific either in puppeted South Korea and puppeted Japan, North Korea mostly just has Great War Infantry, (very few) infantry, and some landships, but almost all of their oil resources are being bought from China and Russia, leaving them with no gold to upgrade many of their obsolete units.

Still, America can't just declare war and make it over quickly. Firstly, Seoul is in firing range of a fuckton of artillery that is set up and just waiting for the mark. They, combined with an unknown number of bombers also in range and infantry nearby mean that Seoul could fall in the first turn of combat if North Korea declares, with some luck, given the numerically, technologically, and training-ly (?) superior American force stationed at the border. Unlike America, North Korea has nothing to lose. They have numbers and a lot of very weak units (artillery that can be killed in one attack by a Mech Infantry or Modern Armor), but together can focus down a unit that gets too far into North Korean lines and kill him in a large number of low-damage barrages.

Also, America is teetering on the brink of "warmonger" diplomatic status due to a lot of ill-advised invasions in the middle east. North Korea has mostly alienated its former friends in China and Russia, but their reactions in case of a preemptive American attack are anybody's guess. A combined denunciation from these two relatively strong powers could lead to more from other nation-states with whom America has spent way too much time and money building relationships these last twenty turns. Worst-case scenario is that China and Russia declare war on America in retaliation and push against its holdings in the Middle East and Europe. This would mean nothing short of planet-wide war as America's defensive-pact allies would also be forced into the conflict. With its military force spread thin, America could be forced to use its nukes against the enemy's advance.

North Korea has researched Atomic Theory and completed the Manhattan Project, but we know they haven't researched Nuclear Fission and they don't have uranium resources in their territory, but they could be being supplied by their "allies". An unlikely, but possible move would be to gift them sufficient uranium and gold to purchase an atomic bomb in case things go REALLY south diplomatically, which would spell disaster for the concentrated American force defending puppeted Korea.

Lastly, America is teetering on the brink of unhappiness, too. Taking over the remainder of North Korea's cities would be the only way to stop the madness, but would also push America into "very unhappy" mode, reducing growth and production in all cities and giving all units a combat penalty. Annexing and purchasing a courthouse in every new city would simply stretch America's gold far beyond what it can support, given that America is barely in the green with its large unit upkeep costs.

The best thing that could happen at this point is for China and Russia to denounce North Korea and stop their trade deals. With no more strategic resources to power its army, North Korea would be forced to disband its units. They would have to abandon their nuclear program due to a lack of uranium. Another option would be for unhappiness to reach critical mass, at which point they would have no other choice but to switch policy trees from Autocracy to Order, which would completely remove those military buffs they got and increase their upkeep to a detestable amount. At this point they'd probably sell off their entire army, replace their forts with farms, open their borders, and try for a diplomatic victory by spending all their money on city-state influence.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeIAmA/comments/1b42kr/explain_the_possible_north_korea_vs_usa_conflict/c93g8qw

[tinker]

Why? NK are never going to strike first, its just propaganda to feed there citizens. They won the world cup last year (according to their media). I don't think we should try and guess another countries leaders future actions from the shit they feed their people.

[Swerbs]

Well they've declared war on the South 

[Richard]

They have been 'at war' with the south since 1953

[Ads]

The fuckton of artillery is spot on in that article. 1500 pieces would cause Seoul quite a bit of damage, even if only 30% are effective.

[darrenm]

Just said to the wife:

So how about North Korea and their postulating eh?

What?

Their gesticulating?

What?

Pontificating?

?

Miscreance?

?

Waving their willy about.

Oh.

Egregiously.

What?

[maqroll]

Any attack on Seoul would be met with swift and complete annihilation...they know this...that is why they won't attack...

[villaajax]

If North Korea shot off one of those bottle rockets they claim to be nuclear , they would be wiped off the map in retaliation. I kind of hope that does happen.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Who knows, perhaps they genuinely believe that shelling Seoul and an invasion will work out in their favour.

 

Perhaps they've fed so much crap to their people they've started to believe it.

 

Perhaps they are, in fact, absolutely bonkers.

 

Or perhaps Kim is facing some pressure and needs to look tough to prevent a coup or somefink.

[ender4]

or maybe Kim isn't even in charge anymore (if he ever was).

 

The military leaders are running the place, and Kim is just being used as a puppet figurehead.

[AVFCforever1991]

or maybe Kim isn't even in charge anymore (if he ever was).

 

The military leaders are running the place, and Kim is just being used as a puppet figurehead.

 

Lol, this is what is happening in every country.

Edited March 30, 2013 by AVFCforever1991

[mjmooney]

or maybe Kim isn't even in charge anymore (if he ever was).

 

The military leaders are running the place, and Kim is just being used as a puppet figurehead.

 

Lol, this is what is happening in every country.

 

The UK?

 

Defence cuts are such that, if the army wanted to stage a coup, they'd have to wait for the T.A. lads to be taking their annual holidays. 

[AVFCforever1991]

 

or maybe Kim isn't even in charge anymore (if he ever was).

 

The military leaders are running the place, and Kim is just being used as a puppet figurehead.

 

Lol, this is what is happening in every country.

 

The UK?

 

Defence cuts are such that, if the army wanted to stage a coup, they'd have to wait for the T.A. lads to be taking their annual holidays. 

 

No I mean't that the the president/Prime Minister are just a puppet figurehead. But instead of the the military running the country, its the corporations who run the country.. Less so in the Uk but most certainly in the US, just look how many ex Goldman Sachs guys there are in the Obama administration..

Edited March 31, 2013 by AVFCforever1991

[tonyh29]

Any attack on Seoul would be met with swift and complete annihilation...they know this...that is why they won't attack...

They believe they could take Seoul and sue for peace .... Whether or not they can is a matter of debate but its very much a plan put forward by the generals

Incidentally the guides I went with have just come back from Pyongyang and said it is business as usual and nothing is really different from how its been the past 20 years

[Mantis]

 

 

or maybe Kim isn't even in charge anymore (if he ever was).

 

The military leaders are running the place, and Kim is just being used as a puppet figurehead.

 

Lol, this is what is happening in every country.

 

The UK?

 

Defence cuts are such that, if the army wanted to stage a coup, they'd have to wait for the T.A. lads to be taking their annual holidays. 

 

No I mean't that the the president/Prime Minister are just a puppet figurehead. But instead of the the military running the country, its the corporations who run the country.. Less so in the Uk but most certainly in the US, just look how many ex Goldman Sachs guys there are in the Obama administration..

These are just silly conspiracies really. It would be daft to claim that special interests don't have influence but to say the PM/President is just a "puppet" is equally as daft.

[regular_john]

If North Korea shot off one of those bottle rockets they claim to be nuclear , they would be wiped off the map in retaliation. I kind of hope that does happen.

 

That's a lot of innocent (and already tucking miserable) people that would die because of the lunacy of the fat child and his cronies

[bickster]

These are just silly conspiracies really. It would be daft to claim that special interests don't have influence but to say the PM/President is just a "puppet" is equally as daft.

Erm George W Bush?

[Mantis]

These are just silly conspiracies really. It would be daft to claim that special interests don't have influence but to say the PM/President is just a "puppet" is equally as daft.

Erm George W Bush?

What about him?

[villarule123]

The North Korean army says it has "ratified" a merciless attack against the United States, potentially involving a "cutting-edge" nuclear strike.

"The moment of explosion is approaching fast," the North Korean military said in a statement on state news agency KCNA.

War could break out "today or tomorrow," the statement said, quoting a spokesman for the General Staff of the Korean People's Army.

"The merciless operation of (our) revolutionary armed forces in this regard has been finally examined and ratified.

"The US had better ponder over the prevailing grave situation."

Pyongyang's latest pronouncement came as Washington scrambled to reinforce its Pacific defences, preparing to move an advanced missile defence system to the island of Guam.

The North's rhetoric has been met by a display of US military strength

The land-based weapon, which is primed to shoot down short and medium-range missiles, will be moved to the US territory to defend its bases there.

The Pentagon has already sent dispatched bombers, stealth fighters and ships.

Tensions have been soaring on the Korean peninsula since the North launched a long-range rocket in December and conducted its third nuclear test in February.

North Korea has threatened missile and nuclear strikes against the US and South Korea in response to UN sanctions and joint military drills.

US Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel said earlier Wednesday that North Korea's "bellicose dangerous rhetoric" posed a "real and clear danger" to America and its allies South Korea and Japan.

"They have nuclear capacity now, they have missile delivery capacity now," he said.

"We take those threats seriously, we have to take those threats seriously.

"We are doing everything we can, working with the Chinese and others to defuse that situation on the peninsula.

A military checkpoint linked to the Kaesong joint industrial complex

"I hope the North will ratchet its very dangerous rhetoric down."

And in another escalation in the crisis, North Korea on Wednesday blocked access to the key Kaesong joint industrial zone with South Korea.

Any move on Kaesong - established in 2004 and a crucial source of hard currency for North Korea - carries enormous significance.

Neither of the Koreas has allowed previous crises to significantly affect the complex, which is the only surviving example of inter-Korean cooperation and seen as a bellwether for stability on the Korean peninsula.

China, the North's sole major ally, appealed for "calm" from all sides, repeating Beijing's oft-declared position.

http://news.sky.com/story/1073563/n-korea-warns-of-merciless-nuclear-strike