Papillon Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Much better position? We are looking much better? Easy on the superlatives mate. Under McLeish we were horrible and everyone hated him, the players surely hated to play for him and it was a matter of time. How we did not relegate was up to the fact that there were a few worser teams than us luckily that year. However, under Lambert resultwise and in terms of performances, we have been dire as well. Of course very early still, but the path he has chosen was bold and the only scapegoat here in the end is him if we relegate come May. I am positive the players loves playing for Lambert compared to McLeish and the spirits must be better just like it is for us fans, but we haven't been looking very good - quite the contrary. We have taken 1 point from Newcastle, Tottenham and Everton which was semi-expected, but the other games have been woeful to watch against poor opposition compared to the others. Swansea was a good game, but it was at home to a side we should be winning against (at least before the game is played, if you know what I mean). We have hugely experienced players in Darren Bent, Shay Given and Richard Dunne. Given has lost his place to Guzan all of a sudden, Dunne has been injured but I don't know if he figures in his plans at all and Darren Bent, our best player without a doubt, was just benched two matches in a row seemingly to test Benteke and to show the media he pulls the strings and not anyone else. Warnock and Hutton are nowhere to be seen, even though they carry vital experience on top of their slightly mediocre ability. We have a young keeper, our full-backs are unproven at this level and have no real leader at the back since Given and Dunne are absent. Sure Vlaar is a vocal presence and our captain, but he is also adapting to the level and the country/language etc. Clark has gone from midfield to the bench to a certain start every week, not sure he is fully settled either. All in all Lambert seems to have one plan and he sticks to it, and I can accept that, but if our team continues to play as poorly as it has done up until now.... well, we are going to relegate and he is going to get fired promptly. He came in as our saviour from McLeish and the doom he caused, but he is not really proven in this league and his reputation will plummit like Lehman stock if he fails his first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Dire? Yep. I am the one that needs to ease up. Again. No point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 If you actually watch the matches instead of simply looking at the table when the weekend is over it is very clear we are a better side, but what is the point in arguing. Let them moan. I've been watching the matches and seen us fail to capitalise on spells of pressure, miss easy chances, concede soft goals and then collapse, and get overrun in midfield. I haven't yet seen much difference compared with the past two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The only notable mistake Lambert has made, in my opinion, was leaving Bent on the bench again on Sunday. Puzzling move. But I don't see how people can have too many gripes with him. We wanted two new fullbacks, we got them. We wanted a holding MF, we got one. We wanted a CB to replace Collins, we got one. We also have a team that plays a better brand of football than last season's horror show. I think we're in a similar situation as Liverpool, actually. New, young managers trying to implement a new system with many young players. Their results have been as poor as ours, but they are playing decent football, like us. I can only see them improving, and I feel the same about us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 We have hugely experienced players in Darren Bent, Shay Given and Richard Dunne. Given has lost his place to Guzan all of a sudden, Dunne has been injured but I don't know if he figures in his plans at all and Darren Bent, our best player without a doubt, was just benched two matches in a row seemingly to test Benteke and to show the media he pulls the strings and not anyone else. Warnock and Hutton are nowhere to be seen, even though they carry vital experience on top of their slightly mediocre ability. We have a young keeper, our full-backs are unproven at this level and have no real leader at the back since Given and Dunne are absent. Sure Vlaar is a vocal presence and our captain, but he is also adapting to the level and the country/language etc. Clark has gone from midfield to the bench to a certain start every week, not sure he is fully settled either.Why are people so obsessed with experience? I've noticed it more recently and it seems like experience is more important than actual quality to a lot of people these days. Take Hutton and Warnock for example. They're both dreadful players despite having lots of experience. Lowton and Bennett may be young (although they still have a fair bit of experience from their previous clubs) but they're far better than Warnock and Hutton even if they're not fantastic players. Dunne as well. He's really not that good these days and I don't understand how he's suddenly become this amazing centre-back in the eyes of many. Given was dropped because of poor performances and since Guzan's come in he's done absolutely fine. Bent is the only one I agree with, but not because he's "experienced" but because he actually has quality, but even then it's not like he's being completely shut out of the team although I didn't agree with the decision to bench him against Spurs. As I keep on saying over and over again, if a player has lots of experience but isn't actually any good (e.g. Hutton and Warnock) then what's the point in playing them? The obsession with experience (and in particular) really grates on me in football. McLeish was like that as well and clearly thought that experience was more important than anything else. People seem to think that if a player has lots of Premier League experience then they're automatically better than anyone who doesn't have it. Experience in general is also being confused with Premier League experience as well. Contrary to popular belief most of the players we brought this summer were actually pretty experienced. The only reason why people are disregarding that is because none of them have Premier League experience, which is apparently the be all and end all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbojames Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The only notable mistake Lambert has made, in my opinion, was leaving Bent on the bench again on Sunday. Puzzling move. But I don't see how people can have too many gripes with him. We wanted two new fullbacks, we got them. We wanted a holding MF, we got one. We wanted a CB to replace Collins, we got one. We also have a team that plays a better brand of football than last season's horror show. I think we're in a similar situation as Liverpool, actually. New, young managers trying to implement a new system with many young players. Their results have been as poor as ours, but they are playing decent football, like us. I can only see them improving, and I feel the same about us. Can only agree with all of this but unfotunately too many people want and expect overnight success to. This is going to take time and there will be plenty of ups and downs along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted October 10, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 10, 2012 The only downside I see to Lambert's reign so far is that he hasn't used the same team twice. Dont get me wrong - that's a good thing! - but for a team that is still finding it's feet, it means it takes even longer for us to gel together. That means more inconsistency ahead in the coming months. But, longer term, this sets us up much better. We will have real options from the bench who can fit into a system, be immediately at home and make an impact tactically instead of predictable subs into the same setup (10 mins to go - sub Petrov for Sidwell). Our results have not been great - but I like what I am seeing and will be patient till I see it bear the fruit I know it eventually will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbojames Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The only downside I see to Lambert's reign so far is that he hasn't used the same team twice. Thought we were unchanged vs Spuds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstonMartin82 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Much better position? We are looking much better? Easy on the superlatives mate. Under McLeish we were horrible and everyone hated him, the players surely hated to play for him and it was a matter of time. How we did not relegate was up to the fact that there were a few worser teams than us luckily that year. However, under Lambert resultwise and in terms of performances, we have been dire as well. Of course very early still, but the path he has chosen was bold and the only scapegoat here in the end is him if we relegate come May. I am positive the players loves playing for Lambert compared to McLeish and the spirits must be better just like it is for us fans, but we haven't been looking very good - quite the contrary. We have taken 1 point from Newcastle, Tottenham and Everton which was semi-expected, but the other games have been woeful to watch against poor opposition compared to the others. Swansea was a good game, but it was at home to a side we should be winning against (at least before the game is played, if you know what I mean). We have hugely experienced players in Darren Bent, Shay Given and Richard Dunne. Given has lost his place to Guzan all of a sudden, Dunne has been injured but I don't know if he figures in his plans at all and Darren Bent, our best player without a doubt, was just benched two matches in a row seemingly to test Benteke and to show the media he pulls the strings and not anyone else. Warnock and Hutton are nowhere to be seen, even though they carry vital experience on top of their slightly mediocre ability. We have a young keeper, our full-backs are unproven at this level and have no real leader at the back since Given and Dunne are absent. Sure Vlaar is a vocal presence and our captain, but he is also adapting to the level and the country/language etc. Clark has gone from midfield to the bench to a certain start every week, not sure he is fully settled either. All in all Lambert seems to have one plan and he sticks to it, and I can accept that, but if our team continues to play as poorly as it has done up until now.... well, we are going to relegate and he is going to get fired promptly. He came in as our saviour from McLeish and the doom he caused, but he is not really proven in this league and his reputation will plummit like Lehman stock if he fails his first season. I actually think that some of our performances have been the best in 2 or 3 years sandwiched between awful performances. The potential is showing, now we just need the consistency. Under Mcleish we didn't show any potential yet a load of consistency - rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Yeah we were consistant under McLeish, Consistently shit that is. Lambert got 1 thing wrong IMO, and that was leaving darren bent on the bench.. Bent NEEDS to start next game, otherwise I will worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I bet the Norwich fans reading this thread (if there are any) are licking their lips at the sight of some people venting at Lambert and starting to turn on him already. They must think its brilliant. I for one think its ridiculous. We are going to have ups. We are going to have downs. Lambert will get it wrong and Lambert will get it right. You cannot expect this to change over night. - Hopefully its only the minority that are starting to dislike him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefa3011 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'm willing to buckle up and enjoy the rollercoaster, as I'm sure we are heading in the right direction under Lambert. When McLeish was in charge I couldn't even see a long term plan other than being hard to beat and losing narrowly rather than trying to win games. Of course I'm worried that we might get relegated, but I have faith in what Lambert, Culverhouse and Karsa are trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted October 10, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 10, 2012 "get overrun in midfield" - keep seeing this. we had 75% over ten minutes against a very, very well drilled baggies side. we constantly have more of the ball than the opposition, how the feck do you do that when you are being overrun in the middle of the park??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 "get overrun in midfield" - keep seeing this. we had 75% over ten minutes against a very, very well drilled baggies side. we constantly have more of the ball than the opposition, how the feck do you do that when you are being overrun in the middle of the park??? Just watch the 2nd half of the Spurs game and you will understand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted October 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 10, 2012 we constantly have more of the ball than the opposition, how the feck do you do that when you are being overrun in the middle of the park??? Just on that. In 7 league games this season, according to Sky Sports' statistics, we have out-possessed our opponents twice. West Ham on the opening day (66%) and West Brom (57.4%). I'm not criticising, because I like what's happening, but just thought this needed clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I must be deluded, as I think we are doing pretty well. I thought we were the better side against Spurs until the goal - despite the London medias qwierd version of the game. I thought we were the better side against Newcastle, Swansea, and Man City I thought we were ok for a half against Southampton, and a second half against Everton. So lucky me I'm not at all concened. I think the difference in our style, set up, hunger, and ambition, was huge between Spurs away last year and this, if Benteke had scored we could easily have gone on to win. I don't think the squad is anywhere near as poor as some think, and I thank God we didnt try the same old rehashed names , as QPR have for example. I love PL's approach, and I have no doubt it will pay off. We are at a very very early stage for all this panic. A rational post amongst all the panic. I think we're playing quite well and once the players get to know each other we'll become a solid unit; it does take time and I wish people would understand this. PL will need to tinker a little and may indeed buy a player or two in January to alleviate a problem if that still appears to be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'm not too stressed about our current points haul as I think we got steadily worse last season and I think we'll gradually improve this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 10, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'm not too stressed about our current points haul as I think we got steadily worse last season and I think we'll gradually improve this season. This is what some people seem to not grasp, imo. They look purely at results and the table and don't see what's on the pitch. With McLeish, there was no sense of potential, or building, or hope. There was no visible end goal. You just couldn't see what he was trying to build towards (probably because he didn't know himself) With Lambert, you can see what he's trying to do. There's potential there. It's clear, to me, that things will improve given time. Whereas with mcleish, the only thing we could see happening was things getting even worse. It's the same reason I much preferred Houllier to McLeish. Both weren't very good, but at least with Houllier there was an end game. You got the feeling (or at least I got the feeling) that given enough time we'd have gotten somwhere. His problem was we couldn't afford that time and he did some very silly things with the media and fans etc. but you got the feeling McLeish could have managed us for 20 years and we'd still be bottom of the league (whichever league we were in) playing hoofball with 6 at the back. The potential is there with Lambert, imo. Things will only get better from here. And that's enough to reassure me that not only will we not get relegated this season, we'll push on beyond it. (Not to mention that I'm sure someone said that, in terms of results aainst specific teams, we're up on last season) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I bet the Norwich fans reading this thread (if there are any) are licking their lips at the sight of some people venting at Lambert and starting to turn on him already. They must think its brilliant. I for one think its ridiculous. We are going to have ups. We are going to have downs. Lambert will get it wrong and Lambert will get it right. You cannot expect this to change over night. - Hopefully its only the minority that are starting to dislike him. That Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The modern era football fan wants everything yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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