U.S. Politics

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, snowychap said:

I'm going to take a punt that if he were a 17 year old black lad walking down that road similarly tooled up that not only wouldn't he have survived but that he wouldn't have made it ten yards down it and no armoured vehicle would have driven past him.

Before he'd ever pulled the trigger probably

[DCJonah]

On 24/08/2020 at 06:19, TheAuthority said:

I began to watch the new Netflix documentary last night about I.C.E. 

I'm not sure if it's available in the UK or you have to use a VPN or another way to watch it. I got about 25 minutes in and had to turn it off. It's beyond harrowing. I don't know it's its just watching that or the last 4 years but I feel like I'm suffering from PTSD. Remember one of the 1st things this Trump administration did was enact the Muslim ban. Bannon admitted they did it on a Friday night because he wanted 'libtards' to flood JFK - literally admitting he wanted to incite social unrest / his wet dream of a race war.

Back to the documentary - There should be tribunals and jail terms for many members of this administration who have destroyed so many desperate peoples lives. The folks that say "I was just doing my job" (see the 1940's for "I was just following orders") are beyond lost. Sure they aren't educated very much and are blue collar people happy to be employed; But they still should be held to account for their despicable lack of humanity and the deceitful way in which they would entrap scared, vulnerable people who hardly spoke the language let alone had any understanding of the law.

Anyone who accepts and venerates this administration and its leader should be ridiculed and ostracized.

The 2016 election result was supposedly all about economic hardship inflicted upon the working class by some sort of elite. Yeah right. No it wasn't. It was, and is racism, hatred, fear, paranoia and a sickening devotion to either a Trump cult, a Q cult or white nationalism. **** all of them. I'm so angry. Watch that documentary and try to defend any of it. I've tried to let it flow like water off a ducks back for several years but watching these destitute fathers from Central American countries, bound in shackles, crying their eyes out about their 1/2/3 year old children who were ripped from their arms - well it just broke me.

When they started separating kids from parents I'd read into It and followed the news but I had to just switch off and try and pretend it doesn't happen because it **** breaks me. Especially about kids who were literally lost in the system or stolen and given up for adoption. 

And then it **** pisses me off because I know there will be no justice and no comeuppance for those who have inflicted this on people. 

But then I kind of get angry at myself for choosing to ignore it. 

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by DCJonah

[il_serpente]

56 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The Bucks have pretty much shut down the NBA playoffs tonight in protest. They elected not to take the court for their game against Orlando.

Massive Donald Trump outburst in 3...2...1....

 

He had already tweeted that he was going to send in the National Guard to restore LAW AND ORDER before the NBA thing even happened.   i don't know if he knew the circumstances of the shooting yet, but even after he sees it I can guarantee he'll find a way to blame it all on BLM.  "The kid was being chased by a mob!   It was self defense!"

[TheAuthority]

5 hours ago, il_serpente said:

He had already tweeted that he was going to send in the National Guard to restore LAW AND ORDER before the NBA thing even happened.   i don't know if he knew the circumstances of the shooting yet, but even after he sees it I can guarantee he'll find a way to blame it all on BLM.  "The kid was being chased by a mob!   It was self defense!"

Who knew his "American Carnage" speech at his inauguration was a prediction?

[sne]

I really think that the NBA (and other sports) cancelling games is quite a big deal. Trump was rather desperate for the major sports to resume asap as I think he sees them as a way of keeping the illusion up that everything is normal and not as bad as they are. The old roman "panem et circenses" Bread and Circuses. This will annoy him no end and I don't think he can go up against the likes of LeBron James and win.

[Davkaus]

He's not had a tantrum on Twitter about it yet, which is very out of character.

[Genie]

25 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

He's not had a tantrum on Twitter about it yet, which is very out of character.

Caps lock at the ready

[villakram]

Now Pelosi out saying that there shouldn't be a debate. Such democratic Democrats.

Meanwhile, Trump suggesting that both himself and Biden should be drug tested prior to the debates.

Wonderful times.

[ml1dch]

8 minutes ago, villakram said:

Now Pelosi out saying that there shouldn't be a debate. Such democratic Democrats.

What does a televised debate, or lack of have to do with democracy?

[HanoiVillan]

9 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

What does a televised debate, or lack of have to do with democracy?

It's for a directly elected position. I think there's a pretty strong argument that voters should be able to hear the candidates describe and defend their positions and records.

[Davkaus]

Just so we're clear, villakram, the candidate you're behind is the one that thinks doctors should check whether internal application of disinfectant is a possible cure for covid. The would be nuker of hurricanes. That's your guy?

[LondonLax]

24 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Just so we're clear, villakram, the candidate you're behind is the one that thinks doctors should check whether internal application of disinfectant is a possible cure for covid. The would be nuker of hurricanes. That's your guy?

Obviously villakram will have to speak for himself but the impression I get is that he is a Democrat voter in a past life who is extremely fed up with establishment politics in the US. I’m guessing he likely would have been a Sanders voter in 2016 but was so frustrated with the way the Democratic Party manoeuvred to keep such an outsider from ousting Clinton that he would rather see Trump burn it all down than support a Biden return to status quo.

There are echos of Christopher Hitchins pivoting to supporting Bush out of frustration at (Bill) Clinton.

Anyway, as I say I’m only guessing and villakram will have to explain his position himself. 

[ml1dch]

32 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

It's for a directly elected position. I think there's a pretty strong argument that voters should be able to hear the candidates describe and defend their positions and records.

Of course there is. There are loads of things that a functioning democracy should have which the USA doesn't. If there isn't a televised debate it can just be added somewhere near the bottom of that list of all the other aberrations that are currently there.

But the absence of one isn't anti-democratic. The UK didn't suddenly become a democracy in 2010 with the first televised debates.

[rayk]

I am making a vast generalisation here but the reality is people on the west coast and east coast understand things......but the folk in the middle.....jeez I’d be surprised if they even knew where Europe was.

[HanoiVillan]

25 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Of course there is. There are loads of things that a functioning democracy should have which the USA doesn't. If there isn't a televised debate it can just be added somewhere near the bottom of that list of all the other aberrations that are currently there.

But the absence of one isn't anti-democratic. The UK didn't suddenly become a democracy in 2010 with the first televised debates.

We don't directly elect PMs though.

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

We don't directly elect PMs though.

I didn’t suggest that we did.

[villakram]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

Obviously villakram will have to speak for himself but the impression I get is that he is a Democrat voter in a past life who is extremely fed up with establishment politics in the US. I’m guessing he likely would have been a Sanders voter in 2016 but was so frustrated with the way the Democratic Party manoeuvred to keep such an outsider from ousting Clinton that he would rather see Trump burn it all down than support a Biden return to status quo.

There are echos of Christopher Hitchins pivoting to supporting Bush out of frustration at (Bill) Clinton.

Anyway, as I say I’m only guessing and villakram will have to explain his position himself. 

Cheers!

That's a little closer to reality, but as a broad brush stroke description it is pretty good.

I am pretty sure I have never stated I support Trump; however, I am happy to post things that upset the echo-chamber view of all that is true and good in the world wearing a big (D). It's just an unhappy coincidence, I suppose, that the populist Trump likes to do the same thing. There's that damned democracy again. Of course, it's easier to simply label those you don't agree with as other. Then they can be ignored, how powerful and how nonsensically post-modern.

I find the moral and ethical arguments for Biden over Trump to be frankly absurd. Two sides of the same coin, the flavors of each side change a little, but it's still a single coin and apparently must remain so. Of interest, one should be aware that it is possible to say that one would not vote for Trump or Biden as a matter of principle, and yet still have more than a single remaining option, e.g., in this election there is (i) Jorgensen, (ii) not voting, and (iii) spoiling your vote... and the bonus option of perhaps Kanye or some other local being on the ballot in your state.

[HanoiVillan]

16 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

I didn’t suggest that we did.

I don't think the debates in the UK are a particularly meaningful point of comparison.

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, rayk said:

I am making a vast generalisation here but the reality is people on the west coast and east coast understand things......but the folk in the middle.....jeez I’d be surprised if they even knew where Europe was.

I think I've written this before but my brother used to work for BP and had to go and work somewhere in middle America. 

He was having his hair cut and the barber said "That's a funny accent you've got there buddy where are you from?" 

When he said England the guy stopped cutting his hair, took a step back, looked at him suspiciously and said "England? Isn't that something to do with Iraq?" 

[sidcow]

42 minutes ago, villakram said:

Cheers!

That's a little closer to reality, but as a broad brush stroke description it is pretty good.

I am pretty sure I have never stated I support Trump; however, I am happy to post things that upset the echo-chamber view of all that is true and good in the world wearing a big (D). It's just an unhappy coincidence, I suppose, that the populist Trump likes to do the same thing. There's that damned democracy again. Of course, it's easier to simply label those you don't agree with as other. Then they can be ignored, how powerful and how nonsensically post-modern.

I find the moral and ethical arguments for Biden over Trump to be frankly absurd. Two sides of the same coin, the flavors of each side change a little, but it's still a single coin and apparently must remain so. Of interest, one should be aware that it is possible to say that one would not vote for Trump or Biden as a matter of principle, and yet still have more than a single remaining option, e.g., in this election there is (i) Jorgensen, (ii) not voting, and (iii) spoiling your vote... and the bonus option of perhaps Kanye or some other local being on the ballot in your state.

I don't pretend to understand anything much about Biden but there is zero doubt in my mind that diluted Trump is better for the whole planet than Trump.  The rest is just hot air. There are only 2 choices and Trump is the worst by a long long way.