blandy Posted May 4, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 4, 2018 22 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: I like the description "some of the oligarchs involved in rigging the US election were Russian" rather than the idea of big bad Russia trying to harm Utah Bob and his second hand truck. If I were a Russian oligarch I'd be involved too, this would be my investments, the financial markets I'm involved with, the regulation of banking and industry that affects me - the sad state of US democracy is that the US election is probably more relevant to a Russian oligarch than it is to the average American voter. Government for the few will always attract more of the few - throwing out the Russians isn't solving the problem. Not only don't I like that argument, I think it's absolute horse-poo. It overlooks one absolutely enormous elephant in the room. That elephant is the all powerful kleptocrat president of Russia, and probably the wealthiest man in the world, Vladimir Putin. It ignores the twitter bot factories, it ignores the situation whereby everything in Russia is done under the eye of Putin, with a view to not being killed, disappeared, have your wife or family taken away and locked up. Displeasing Putin = death. For all the rotten state of US and most of Western Politics, it is but nothing to what has happened in Russia. Putin is in complete control, he sorts out his own election, he control everything. If Oligarchs upset him, then come over all poorly like. It is not a rich oligarch or a bunch of them looking after their money, it is systemic Russian state involvement right across the west. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 4, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, blandy said: Not only don't I like that argument, I think it's absolute horse-poo. It overlooks one absolutely enormous elephant in the room. That elephant is the all powerful kleptocrat president of Russia, and probably the wealthiest man in the world, Vladimir Putin. It ignores the twitter bot factories, it ignores the situation whereby everything in Russia is done under the eye of Putin, with a view to not being killed, disappeared, have your wife or family taken away and locked up. Displeasing Putin = death. For all the rotten state of US and most of Western Politics, it is but nothing to what has happened in Russia. Putin is in complete control, he sorts out his own election, he control everything. If Oligarchs upset him, then come over all poorly like. It is not a rich oligarch or a bunch of them looking after their money, it is systemic Russian state involvement right across the west. I'm not sure about the elephant in the room, I think we're in a room full of elephants. Putin is an oligarch in control of a state (as opposed to Trump who is an oligarch nominally in charge of a state but struggling to direct any of its functions) it makes him very powerful indeed, and hugely dangerous, but he's not alone. There are lots of elephants out there, some are harder to spot than others - Putin likes the limelight and we're happy to let him have it. Outside of the ability to access the power of the apparatus of special services of state military, there's nothing Putin does that other oligarchs don't - Robert Mercer for example is as guilty of armies of twitter bots as anyone, possibly more guilty. - and you can paint me pink if the US don't employ the dark arts of murder and regime change in much the same way as Putin does. Ask the people of Venezuela if they feel their families are safe. Putin wears a black hat, but there are bad people everywhere. The last US election was between Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump - the illusion of choice, Putin doesn't offer that lie, I'll give you that, but lets not pretend that those that run the US weren't responsible for the offer of those candidates - the US government is a puppet for the likes of Mercer, the Koch brother and the Adelsons and to imagine they don't have access and influence over the US military is foolish - they have huge influence over the budgets assigned to those areas and to the people who get to be in the positions to decide those budgets - if they want a war, the chances are they get one. I'm sure Putin is on talking terms with all of them, I'm sure they fundamentally disagree on some things, but money and money talk. Putin doesn't live in a vacuum where everything he wants happens. Putin is powerful, he's unpleasant and he's ruthlessly engaged in attempting to get his hands on anything he can get his hands on - I don't believe he's unique in that by way of nationality - and I don't buy him having become a Bond villain since he started to disagree with us on how the spoils of the globe should be divided. I don't agree that this is about Russia vs the West - in fact, I think the labels are to an extent outdated - the days of states are over. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I think we're in a room full of elephants Did they all come in the same Mini? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 30/04/2018 at 16:54, Demitri_C said: I'm not a trump fan at all, but you do have to give him so credit towards the Korea peace. I never thought I would see the day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted May 4, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 4, 2018 Well I don't know about you guys, but this clears everything up for me. Moving right along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 1 hour ago, blandy said: Not only don't I like that argument, I think it's absolute horse-poo. It overlooks one absolutely enormous elephant in the room. That elephant is the all powerful kleptocrat president of Russia, and probably the wealthiest man in the world, Vladimir Putin. It ignores the twitter bot factories, it ignores the situation whereby everything in Russia is done under the eye of Putin, with a view to not being killed, disappeared, have your wife or family taken away and locked up. Displeasing Putin = death. For all the rotten state of US and most of Western Politics, it is but nothing to what has happened in Russia. Putin is in complete control, he sorts out his own election, he control everything. If Oligarchs upset him, then come over all poorly like. It is not a rich oligarch or a bunch of them looking after their money, it is systemic Russian state involvement right across the west. US state involvement across the rest of humanity. Oh, I am so sorry. That's that whataboutism thing is it not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted May 4, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 4, 2018 Umm, so if Fox News have started pointing fingers at him, what does that mean?! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 5 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: Umm, so if Fox News have started pointing fingers at him, what does that mean?! WTF? When I ate that half eaten doughnut this morning, did it somehow transfer me to some wacked out alternate reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Is Rupert Murdoch getting a sniff of which way the wind is blowing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 His NRA speech was special, in a special needs kind of way. The jist is, it's better to kill with guns than knives but I can't work out why this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: Umm, so if Fox News have started pointing fingers at him, what does that mean?! Something huge must be coming, and soon, no way do Fox News change direction like this other than to save themselves. OR - it's a rogue presenter, maybe someone there was always going to get tired of the propaganda. Edited May 5, 2018 by Jareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted May 5, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 5, 2018 On 04/05/2018 at 18:58, NurembergVillan said: This is how mass shootings happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 David is a bit of a weird middle name for someone called Diana. America is weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 9 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: This is how mass shootings happen. Typing out his version of events on Stormfront later: ”FAKE SIGNS” 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2018 I love this exchange - it's the entirety of Donald Trump in a nutshell Quote "How does this make America safer?" asked the journalist. "This will make America much safer," Trump responded. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-44032008 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2018 Just now, bickster said: Would you trust a country that backs out of its deals at the whim of the moron in chief? Absolutely not. The key to peace between North and South Korea for me is in trying to make it only about North and South Korea in as far as is possible. I wish them good luck with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: Absolutely not. The key to peace between North and South Korea for me is in trying to make it only about North and South Korea in as far as is possible. I wish them good luck with that! Yeah but South Korea might as well be the 51st State as far as the North is concerned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2018 Just now, bickster said: Yeah but South Korea might as well be the 51st State as far as the North is concerned And as far the US is concerned. (Maybe 58th) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2018 I've been bottling my urine since christmas in preparation for his arrival. Sadly I'm not sure it'll kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted May 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 8, 2018 Just now, OutByEaster? said: I've been bottling my urine since christmas in preparation for his arrival. Sadly I'm not sure it'll kill him. kill him? probably make him jizz his pants 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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