bobzy Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 14 minutes ago, WooJung said: On current form he should replace Gana in the starting 11, but I still don't really rate him... Sanchez should be the one gone. Westwood, Veretout and Gueye are the 3 best midfielders we have at the moment - that's who we should be starting/rotating between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Gana and Sanchez will start for now as we need their industry they are not always the best on the ball but they win it back and Sanchez wins alot of balls in the air in midfield. Westwood doesn't have legs to run around or strength to win the ball playing in there , look at Everton game when Sanchez didn't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 21, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 21, 2015 Thought he did the role asked of him well enough on Saturday. Kept it defensive and let Hutton overlap him and provide the width, and Veretout to do the attacking through the middle. Unspectacular but I think that's what we were after. Also, his touch remained impeccable in those conditions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 He really does have a consistently superb first touch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Unfortunately we really need better players. He and a few others like Hutton Lescott Clark Sanchez Sinclair etc need to be moved on but will have to wait for the summer. Bring in some fresh faces who have a bit more ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooJung Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) 21 hours ago, bobzy said: Sanchez should be the one gone. Westwood, Veretout and Gueye are the 3 best midfielders we have at the moment - that's who we should be starting/rotating between. I disagree, Sanchez has been very poor in the last 2-3 games, but he nevertheless gives our team a solid shape. We saw at Everton how lightweight our midfield is without him. It's a bit like Ayew performing much better when Gestede is up front, even if Gestede's individual performance is poor. Edited December 22, 2015 by WooJung 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) He's a different type of player to sanchez / Gana - they will break up play and stop attacks hence why even when they have a bad game - thye still tend to be picked. I'm not a fan of him at all. That said, I can't say he was any worse than those 2 in the past few games (but still can't and shouldn't play holding midfield) also glad to see he wasn't given a role on the corners free kicks. . To me he just seems really, really cowardly, cowardly off the ball when he doesn't tackle or drop back nd even more cowardly when on the ball - we've seen him do some fantastic, raking passes and also some beautiful slide through balls but how many in his 4 years here? To often he takes the easy way out and plays square backwards. We're not a possession team we need quick, fast, direct (not long ball) passing and we have to start creating chances. I'd sooner see Gil there becasue he will try things. Possession sideways / backwards passing (or 5 yards forward for the pedantic ;-) ) will not help us get out of trouble. If we're a couple of goals in front then possession is great and I'd (reluctantly) welcome him on the pitch as long as it's not in DCM. Hopefully Garde is looking at the DCM position in the window to give gana / sanchez some real competition then we can let Westwood fight it out further forward (i'd put gardner ahead of him when he's fit) Edited December 22, 2015 by commander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) 9 hours ago, WooJung said: I disagree, Sanchez has been very poor in the last 2-3 games, but he nevertheless gives our team a solid shape. We saw at Everton how lightweight our midfield is without him. It's a bit like Ayew performing much better when Gestede is up front, even if Gestede's individual performance is poor. totally agree, I'd like to see a whole host of players played DCM before Westwood gets a game there -it's too risky. I think it's the most important position on the pitch and us not having a proper DCM is one of the main reasons we've been so poor for so long. Like WooJung says it's the shape that's so important and I know it's not their game but in no particular order players I'd rather see DCM than Westwood; Sanchez, Gana, Clark, Gardner, Illori, Richardson, Bacuna erm possibly even Lescott (clutching at straws now).... not sure of the kids Edited December 22, 2015 by commander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) I'd say DCM is our highest priority in January. I like Westwood, but he's not the kind of player we need in that dedicated defensive midfielder role. Sanchez IS the kind of player we need there, just not good enough. I see Westwood competing with Gana over his role more than Sanchez. That sort of support role. Making yourself available for the DM to pass to and giving it to the attackers when you get it. That's the role that Delph played well for us and the role that Gana has taken up to varying degrees of success. Edited December 23, 2015 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 4 hours ago, commander said: He's a different type of player to sanchez / Gana - they will break up play and stop attacks hence why even when they have a bad game - thye still tend to be picked. I'm not a fan of him at all. That said, I can't say he was any worse than those 2 in the past few games (but still can't and shouldn't play holding midfield) also glad to see he wasn't given a role on the corners free kicks. . To me he just seems really, really cowardly, cowardly off the ball when he doesn't tackle or drop back nd even more cowardly when on the ball - we've seen him do some fantastic, raking passes and also some beautiful slide through balls but how many in his 4 years here? To often he takes the easy way out and plays square backwards. We're not a possession team we need quick, fast, direct (not long ball) passing and we have to start creating chances. I'd sooner see Gil there becasue he will try things. Possession sideways / backwards passing (or 5 yards forward for the pedantic ;-) ) will not help us get out of trouble. If we're a couple of goals in front then possession is great and I'd (reluctantly) welcome him on the pitch as long as it's not in DCM. Hopefully Garde is looking at the DCM position in the window to give gana / sanchez some real competition then we can let Westwood fight it out further forward (i'd put gardner ahead of him when he's fit) I think it's unfair to say that he only takes the easy way out, and this sideways/backwards myth has been debunked years ago. In fact, he passes it forward more often than he doesn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooJung Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 18 hours ago, Keyblade said: I think it's unfair to say that he only takes the easy way out, and this sideways/backwards myth has been debunked years ago. In fact, he passes it forward more often than he doesn't. Yes, but what does forward mean? If it goes forward by 3 meters and sideways by 10 it's still considered a forward pass, but it's pretty much more sideways than forwards... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, WooJung said: Yes, but what does forward mean? If it goes forward by 3 meters and sideways by 10 it's still considered a forward pass, but it's pretty much more sideways than forwards... Had a look on the site but couldn't find anything to explain, but statisticians aren't concerned about making a players stats look better or worse, they're only trying to be as accurate as possible, so you can guarantee that there is a reasonable angle of pass that registers as sideways. Let's say it's a modest 40 degrees either side (leaving 140 degrees for forward or backwards passes), the angle of pass in your example would be 16.7 degrees forwards, well inside the 20 degrees forward or backward it needed to be to count as sideways. ** This does rely on it meaning that it could be forward, backward, and sideways as opposed to forward and backwards only, but the stats on that site are from Opta who do count all 3. Edited December 23, 2015 by a m ole added something useful, removed something potentially inflammatory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Sideways passing only counts for exact parrellel to half way line. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I don't care about stats. I watch games and his passing would make Kinsella blush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Some serious tripe in this thread as per usual, he came in against Newcastle and put in a solid performance, you would think people would be glad to see that considering how dodgy some of our midfielders have played in his absence... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Let's not forget why he was absent in the first place 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 27 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said: Let's not forget why he was absent in the first place yeah, he was playing poorly, something that happens in just about every footballers career, and something that I'm sure Bunnski would readily admit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 3 hours ago, a m ole said: yeah, he was playing poorly, something that happens in just about every footballers career, and something that I'm sure Bunnski would readily admit. Seems to last longer for most of our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted December 26, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 26, 2015 Nice hand move Ashley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I've been as critical of him as anyone but I thought he was decent today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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