BOF Posted February 14, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 14, 2012 That's fairly conclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I called "dead man walking" on the day of his appointment, and seldom have I been so right. Sometimes big people, even professionals, make obvious mistakes and this was clearly one of them. The problem is the apathy from the board, the players and the fans all in combination. The players does not look like they care much, not having any tight bonds with the club. They know they will go to another club within weeks, especially our stars such as Darren Bent and Charles N'Zogbia. And what about Dunne, Given, Petrov, Clark, Gabby and the others? Some will stay but most will bugger off, and I will not hold anything against them. I said one week ago that we were in fact safe this year, but looking at it again the race is open. It is probably not more than 10-15% chance, luckily. The gap of points is not that big, but there are some seriously weak teams under us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 No. I wanted to give him time I really did but when I walk away from a ground as angry as I did on sunday it isn't healthy. Dull football, terrible tactics, alienation of better players because he has had a tiff with them, playing for a nil nil, alienation of Bent by not playing to his strengths. We are capable of playing decent attacking football (as proved in glimpses, I would rather have a manager who encourages this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 After much thought, I've actually voted "stay", much to my surprise. This is not because I think McLeish is a great or even good manager, nor because I think his comments about the tactics against Man C were at all acceptable, nor that he's any sort of long term prospect as a manager for us. Far from it. But I think to sack him now would make the club a laughing stock. McLeish has a tough job to do. He needs to manage out of the club all of the older players on wages that Lerner has decided he cannot afford any more. There will be no money to spend for a manager until this is done so we will not attract a decent replacement until this phase is over (at which stage, I hope Lerner will then sell the club to someone capable of sustaining a longer term run of the investment we need). McLeish will keep us in the premier league while he is purging the club of the Collins's, Warnocks, etc., and he should be sacked only once there is some decent money to spend and we can get in a proper manager to restore the damage done by the shambles we've had since MON left. So I would keep him for next season then sack him. Not sure McLeish would find much to comfort him in this support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die_Hard Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 NO Giving a manager time is one thing if it is apparent he has potential to achieve things once he's got a system in place and once he's been given some financial backing. McLeish has shown throughout his entire career that he is a negative, uninspiring dullard with a track record for producing awful football. We do not want that kind of shit played at Villa Park. If people honestly believe that he will one day magically change his footballing ethos overnight they are mistaken. Get him out, asap. He's a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Mcleish out and Lerner out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 14, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14, 2012 No - it's not the results, it's not that he's come from SHA, it's just that there's no entertainment value in going to Villa Park anymore - It's putting me off going and I want to be excited when walking up to Villa Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 in terms of the current result of this poll it is a valentines day massacre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteStan Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hold onto the raft! Change is not the answer, we need continuity. If this is a 'job too far' for McLeish that can be determined in the summer. We are not going down, believe me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 85% thats un-survivable in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoughboroughLion Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 No. It's not about me being bothered he used to be at birmingham, it is categorically down to the fact he dosen't win games. So much over the past weekend I have seen on the BBC sport website and twitter, 'why are the Villa fans annoyed they're avoiding relegation', it angers me to think that our club could fall into a position where if we finish top half everyone will be amazed. We are a top 6 club, and we shouldn't settle for anything less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Only 215 people have voted, that's less than 1% of our attendances And your asking VT members who I'd say are probably more radical than the average fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBM Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 no from me he was an awful choice, and even though we need to build long term, it starts with the right manager and coaching staff, and mcleish certainly isnt that guy, players dont want to play for him, supporters dont want to support him he will have to seriously turn this around to impress us, dire football can be excused for more wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HackneyVillain Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I would love him to come good as I think some of the abuse he gets is unwarranted (the ginger comments etc.) However we are horrible to watch and I fear who he would sign given the chance (the players we have been linked with in my opinion are grafters and we desperately need some flair back in the team). He should go. (no, I'm not ginger) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 No. By the clubs own admission we should be challenging for Europe, but we are 15th. He needs to go because he is massively under-achieving and out team will be even worse to watch when Keane goes. The board expect Top 8, we are 15th. This is almost as embarrassing as Venky's expecting CL in 3 years but sticking with Kean when he was in the relegation zone. AMC OUT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 If we are to get a gauge of opinion then this thread has to be used solely for its intention. In other words, vote and then, if you want to, provide a brief reason why. Once you have done this then please move on. If posters continue to use this thread to debate and counter debate the pros and cons of Alex McLeish and Randy Lerner et al then I wouldn't be surprised if this thread gets locked and then we won't have an opportunity to just get a gauge. If you want to comment on McLeish and/or Lerner then there are specific threads for this so please use them. Thank you in anticipation of your co-operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 To quote a very famous song, Im guessin this should be running through McLeish and Lerner's minds a the Moment Should I stay or should I go now? Should I stay or should I go now? If I go there will be trouble And if I stay it will be double This is 100% true for villa at he moment, there will be double trouble if he stays.. please leave lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yes. Lot's of reasons for me, most will be ridiculed by some of the more 'radical' followers on here, but I like to think I keep a balanced viewpoint. For me, the main reasons the team are not performing at present are a lack of confidence, disenchanted players and negative crowds at Villa Park. The last 3 years have been a steady decline. It started in the final year of MON's tenure, where it looked like the players couldn't be arsed to play any more and it seemed like he had lost the dressing room. A convenient argument with Randy/PF later and he was happily out of the sinking ship. The players are then largely static in personnel and stick together against any change. Houllier comes in and doesn't mind that he doesn't have the dressing room from the start, but with the disciplinarian technique including the harsh fitness schedules, he started to get the players more confident, organised and a bit more continental in style. To me, the health problems came at the worst possible time for us. I'm confident with more of Houllier type of players coming in, old British cloggers going out, we would have been a decent force this season. So Randy needs someone to continue with the discipline, but with enough experience in the English game to not completely lose control. Eck must have seemed a nice safe choice, especially after speaking to various people in the game including SAF who speak highly of him, and I can see why they do. As far as his tactics go, he's sound. He's able to identify weak areas in our team and take steps to improve them and he knows how to exploit other team's weaknesses. That's the baseline for a Premier League manager, someone who has been through the many different coaching courses from the FA, and then UEFA, someone who has managed at the top level for 15 years, after playing for Scotland 77 times, playing in the Scottish league for 17 years under different managers, winning the Carling Cup with a crap team and actually making cheapo Small Heath into a better club than us for a short period of time. At the moment, the players simply aren't doing as he asks. He can only shout so much but if they don't follow his instructions there's not a lot more he can do. With the right combination of a few wins, a feel-good factor returning, and the main ring-leaders in the dressing room being kicked out, I think we'll start to turn it around. I also think Football at the highest level has to be played using the averages. If you play an open game against someone like Man City, the chances are they will score more goals, you may get lucky but you probably won't. Play a tight, defensive game and you'll keep the score down and have more chance of getting something out of it. It's simple pragmatism. So, to me, yes they should keep faith. I have a lot more confidence in AM than I do in RAL. To blame McLeish for the current poor run of results and dour football is like blaming some bloke moving in his seat on an aeroplane for the turbulence. It's a lot more complicated and runs a lot deeper than "we would of(sic) won if we had a go". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yes. I agree with darrenm . The problem seems most likely to be a few bad apples in the team most notably those in defense, we need to get them out this summer. Going forward we are creating chances and generally playing ok but it's the defensive lapses which are the problem not the manager after all there's only so much he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djamfisher Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I voted no. Even the person who gave him the job thinks he should be doing better. Poor tactics can't get the best out of the players Players aren't doing what he asks (this does not happen to top managers) Has a record of relegation (i.e. when the team starts to struggle he can't turn the form guide around). Team's confidence has gone, a good motivator can surely turn this around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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