fruitvilla Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Only the couple involved and their god can make and judge these decisions. Shudder! There is nothing to judge. Either a course of action will have a desired outcome or it won't. Morals are for the weak minded ... rules of thumb when we don't have enough information and can't work out a likely outcome. The one bit of advice I have seen that vaguely seems reasonable so far, is seek professional counselling. Edited September 21, 2021 by fruitvilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 1 minute ago, fruitvilla said: Shudder! There is nothing to judge. Either a course of action will have a desired outcome or it won't. Morals are for the weak minded ... rules of thumb when we don't have enough information and can't work out a likely outcome. The one bit of advice I have seen that that vaguely seems reasonable so far, is seek professional counselling. So what word would you use instead of judge to decide if something had the desired outcome or not? Would ‘review with recommendations’ sound softer? Morals? If you had all the information and knew you could get away with a murder, and that person wouldn’t be particularly missed, and you could gain from it, why wouldn’t you murder that person? You can do it and get away with it and no obvious negative impact in fact a positive impact for you. Why would you not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Incidentally, it’s currently Judith on Naked Attraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: So what word would you use instead of judge to decide if something had the desired outcome or not? Would ‘review with recommendations’ sound softer? I don't think replacing judge with a synonym is going to do anything. 3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Morals? If you had all the information and knew you could get away with a murder, and that person wouldn’t be particularly missed, and you could gain from it, why wouldn’t you murder that person? You can do it and get away with it and no obvious negative impact in fact a positive impact for you. Why would you not? This assumes if I had all the information I would have murder on my mind. My point is people should get their moral fantasies out other people's bedrooms. And when I say this I include god. I understand you did sort of say this ... but it is this couple's situation to work through. They don't need to judge, nor I, nor anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: I don't think replacing judge with a synonym is going to do anything. So how would you work out if it is working for you if you’re not going to judge it or review it or use a word like that? Surely at some point down the line you’ll want a joint discussion on whether you’re both happy with how things are? Assess if its been more or less positive or negative? What word would you use for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 21, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2021 If it's been fully and frankly discussed, truly, and guidelines and ground rules set that all can truly agree and stick to, then it's perfectly possible for a relationship to work in more or less any scenario. I'm not sure that many people could truly accept a partner **** someone else on the reg, but there are people that can do it. There are people out there that have successful polyamorous relationships, there's successful relationships where one partner is openly **** around. But it's rare and going along that road has to be done in the knowledge that you may be setting on a path that you can't turn back from and may not end well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: So how would you work out if it is working for you if you’re not going to judge it or review it or use a word like that? Surely at some point down the line you’ll want a joint discussion on whether you’re both happy with how things are? Assess if its been more or less positive or negative? What word would you use for that? Like I said If I were in the situation I (and I hope my wife) would get some professional advice ... Work out what the desired outcome(s) are; devise a strategy and go for it. May or may not work, but there's no morality involved. Edited September 21, 2021 by fruitvilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: Like I said If I were in the situation I (and I hope my wife) would get some professional advice ... Work out what the desired outcome(s) are; devise a strategy and go for it. May or may not work, but there's no morality involved. You’ve mentioned the morals a few times now, that there aren’t morals involved. Well, that’s what I was saying so you’re kinda pushing an open door there. But you really wouldn’t make your own decision on whether it has worked for you? You wouldn’t review at some stage if it was better or worse than other alternatives? You’d rely on the judgement of others to wholly replace your own views on whether it has worked for you? I don’t believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: But you really wouldn’t make your own decision on whether it has worked for you? You wouldn’t review at some stage if it was better or worse than other alternatives? You’d rely on the judgement of others to wholly replace your own views on whether it has worked for you? I don’t believe that. This would be ... my want ... decide on a course of action together with my wife. It might not work and a desired outcome is not achieved. There is no need for judging here. Also getting counselling is not the same having people replace my views. Also I would not go to a counsellor to determine whether something worked or not. I would go to one to see what other courses of action (options) there are, and perhaps get a sense of the likelihood of them working. 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: It’s not quite as straightforwardly ‘moral’ as it first sounds. You said: it is not straightforwardly 'moral'. I am saying leave morals out of it all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Well, I guess we’re all different. I’d be evaluating my decisions to see if I need to change them. If you don’t do that, that’s fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, bobzy said: I think the first part has a massive amount of variance involved - the most prevalent being, what exactly counts as "cheating"? - so I'd be interested to see what the data defines that as. I find it hard to believe that 50% of people have had sex with another person whilst in a relationship. I find it harder still to believe that 50% of people have had sex with another person whilst in a happy and loving relationship. 50% of people having kissed someone whilst in a relationship? Yes, I can completely believe that. For me, I fall into the latter and not into the former. I'm absolutely not holier than thou. You're not wrong that this is a very difficult area to study, because unsurprisingly many people do not want to tell researchers that they have cheated on their partners. Self-reporting can lead to denial, and the passage of time to forgetfulness, but most published academic articles I've seen put the lifetime prevalence of extra-marital sex at somewhere between 20 and 40% for men, and between 20 and 25% for women, and then roughly similar numbers again for infidelity involving actions less than sex. 2 hours ago, bobzy said: There are a couple of issues that I have with the situation - and what you've written here - and I appreciate that it's a personal view. The first one is this arrogant assumption that he can just go and "get sex" . That he has a right to just go and get laid. The "not my sister or friends" part is particularly interesting. Are they both of the opinion that this bloke can simply ask her sister or friends for a shag and they'd say yes? What sort of relationships are those?! On this, I don't know if you're responding to me, but to be clear I completely agree that no-one has a 'right' to have sex. 2 hours ago, bobzy said: If it is a cold "just anyone" thing, why not consider prostitution first? Then you're removing the emotional aspect - it becomes a transaction to get your end away and nothing more involved which could adversely impact on the happy and loving relationship with ones wife. As I say, though, personal view. I don't think prostitution is the worst idea in this scenario to be honest, but it is illegal to pay for sex which poses certain challenges, and it's possible that one or other partner has prejudiced or skeptical views about prostitutes. But sure, it could be an option on the table. 2 hours ago, bobzy said: Thirdly, the original post said something along the lines of mates' wife has just gone through the change and is on medication, both of which have combined to result in her losing her sex drive. I think there is some validity in what you're saying from a "no sex for the rest of my life" point of view, but the context seemed to suggest that this is a relatively new change that they are adapting to. Out of interest, and given that you've said you would like to think you'd offer the same resolution, what kind of time frame would you think is 'acceptable' between last shag with wife and having a discussion about sleeping around because "I need my release"? Even the consideration around that - you'd absolutely be wanking first; that would be the way of finding your release. Surely you'd go for a pretty long time 'waiting' for your wife to regain her libido before even thinking about shagging someone else? Again, it's a reasonable point, the OP didn't make clear how long a timeframe we are talking about, or how old the people involved are. My assumption from the post was that efforts had been made to rekindle the couple's sex life and that they had been unsuccessful. But I don't think there's a *should* timeframe in this, not trying to be a cop-out but it depends too much on what has been said and done before, whether the idea of opening up the marriage has been discussed previously, what circumstances are happening now etc. 2 hours ago, bobzy said: Those would be the issues. The final point is more... is there really any advice needed here? As you say, it's been an open discussion. Surely the only question is in his head as to whether he would want to go through with it? If he feels like it's an act of betrayal, then he shouldn't shag someone else, no? Ultimately the question is whether his feeling that he may be betraying his wife outweighs or is outweighed by the permission she has given. But I think there is some need for advice, specifically that if the permission is real, then he does not need to consider this 'an act of betrayal'. Instead, a more helpful mental framing might be 'a valuable gift' instead, one which he should treat carefully and with respect, and look to pay back (presumably in a different way) in the future. Edited September 22, 2021 by HanoiVillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted September 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 22, 2021 2 hours ago, bickster said: How do you know any of us hasn't? If they have and are not interested in giving their opinion on the subject as per thx discussion your comment is completely irrelevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted September 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 22, 2021 3 hours ago, lapal_fan said: I'm sure you're not the only one. I know a couple who went through it in their mid 20s, whilst it wasn't my wife it was someone we know really well. I wouldn't want my wife to go through an severe reactions. Your right, I am sure I am not the only one. Ever considered a career in the Samaritans? Your ‘friends’ wife situation really is of no relevance, going ‘through it’ as the symptoms vary massively from woman to woman and is somewhat anecdotal regardless Let’s hope your wife does not, on that we agree at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 7 hours ago, mikeyp102 said: . When they do eventually go back to martial sex, all these things will be going on in her head, and possibly his. Sounds painful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 22, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Follyfoot said: If they have and are not interested in giving their opinion on the subject as per thx discussion your comment is completely irrelevant Yes but they might have and have commented which was the whole point. You've got no idea and you aren't in a unique situation Also don't come on to a forum, post a scenario "for a mate" then blow a gasket when you don't like the answers And for the record, the my missus went through a very strong early menopause triggered by chemotherapy she recieved after she had a cancerous breast removed. And no I've never even thought about playing away 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seat68 Posted September 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 22, 2021 Joking aside my wife's libido is rock bottom. We have never discussed me going elsewhere. If that day came I would personally question if I really loved her. But that's me. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted September 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 22, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, bickster said: Yes but they might have and have commented which was the whole point. You've got no idea and you aren't in a unique situation Also don't come on to a forum, post a scenario "for a mate" then blow a gasket when you don't like the answers And for the record, the my missus went through a very strong early menopause triggered by chemotherapy she recieved after she had a cancerous breast removed. And no I've never even thought about playing away Firstly it was not directed at you, You had not provided any real commentit apart from joking it was a trap. It was directed at the one poster as you well know. Secondly I’m ever so sorry to hear about your wife and I really do feel for you and her. I genuinely hope she’s better now In addition I’ve not blown a gasket I’ve just reacted to one posters comments. Thirdly it was not my suggestion as I confirmed I was just looking for guidance and possible advice in this situation, it does feel like I’m in a unique situation because it’s impossible really to talk to anybody about it unless anonymously regarding the situation I find myself in the last two years. It has taken me five weeks of starting a comment on this thread deleting it and going back to it Edited September 22, 2021 by Follyfoot 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Firstly it was not directed at you, You had not provided any real commentit apart from joking it was a trap. It was directed at the one poster as you well know. Secondly I’m ever so sorry to hear about your wife and I really do feel for you and her. I genuinely hope she’s better now In addition I’ve not blown a gasket I’ve just reacted to one posters comments. Thirdly it was not my suggestion as I confirmed I was just looking for guidance and possible advice in this situation, it does feel like I’m in a unique situation because it’s impossible really to talk to anybody about it unless anonymously regarding the situation I find myself in the last two years. It has taken me five weeks of starting a comment on this thread deleting it and going back to it I think the short answer is that the vast majority of people think getting your fill elsewhere is an extremely bad idea for a number of reasons. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 22, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 22, 2021 8 hours ago, Follyfoot said: To any one who has not lived with their partner through a severe menopausal reaction I suggest they try living through it first rather than making idiotic ill informed judgements. They do not call it the change without good reason 14 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: It was directed at the one poster as you well know. In addition I’ve not blown a gasket I’ve just reacted to one posters comments See up there, it really wasn't directed at one poster 16 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Secondly I’m ever so sorry to hear about your wife and I really do feel for you and her. I genuinely hope she’s better now I really wasn't looking for sympathy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 20 hours ago, Follyfoot said: good looking We’ll be the judge of that. Pic or gtfo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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