Irreverentad's Relationship Advice Thread

[Rds1983]

8 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I know!

A FOOTBALL FORUM WILL HELP!!!

 

Holy shit, go to a professional.

Hey VT, what you reckon about this huge weeping mole on my back?

I jest, partially.  This is a very open forum and I'm amazed at some of the stuff that people write (about very personal issues), fair play, but when reading this one back it feels like a "humble brag" almost.

"I know what the lads will love, an open relationship offer from the missus"

(/Paraphrase)

I'm kinda sat here thinking, shit dude, it's obvious there's been a real life one-to-one here between two people.. life changing really.. I wouldn't be airing it, if it was me, but y'know, I'm not good looking and successful and have a miniscule of respect for my wife, so there's that.

Good luck to the happy couple, whatever the outcome.

It wouldn't be where I'd talk about it myself but perhaps it felt like a safe space, somewhere familiar, where relationships and friendships have been developed but still far enough away (i.e. Talking with strangers) to not feel embarrassed to bring the subject up. People post all sorts of stuff and problems on various forums that they wouldn't know how to talk to about with their friends or family. It took me a very long time to build up the courage to get professional help when I was dealing with extreme anxiety and depression, and even longer to be able to talk about it to my friends or family. I was happy to seek advice and help online though as it felt safe. Only two people know everything that is going on in this relationship. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Rds1983

[lapal_fan]

3 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I don’t think it’s all that uncommon for women and even men to go off sex and turn a blind eye to their loved ones getting it elsewhere. Some may even be fine with it. After all it’s only sex isn’t it. I’m not saying it’s that easy because it isn’t. There can be a lot of resentment and hurt and the man/woman having the sex may fall in love with someone else. A big fan of worms more than likely , but it does work for some couples. 

I've told you this a hundred times over PM, and I can't emphasise this enough Ruge, but I'm NOT going to have sex with you, even if your wife is happy about it.

[Follyfoot]

18 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I know!

A FOOTBALL FORUM WILL HELP!!!

 

Holy shit, go to a professional.

Hey VT, what you reckon about this huge weeping mole on my back?

I jest, partially.  This is a very open forum and I'm amazed at some of the stuff that people write (about very personal issues), fair play, but when reading this one back it feels like a "humble brag" almost.

"I know what the lads will love, an open relationship offer from the missus"

(/Paraphrase)

I'm kinda sat here thinking, shit dude, it's obvious there's been a real life one-to-one here between two people.. life changing really.. I wouldn't be airing it, if it was me, but y'know, I'm not good looking and successful and have a miniscule of respect for my wife, so there's that.

Good luck to the happy couple, whatever the outcome.

My mate says you’ve got it all wrong and making assumptions based on nothing at all other than a few lines.He had spent every single day virtually in her company for over 25 years working together building a business together and being each other’s rock and bringing two beautiful children into the world. The conversation was honest and truthful. The fact that an advice thread even exists on the site somewhat belittles your comments, after all it is anonymous which is the whole point. Her offer is heartfelt and genuine as the situation has been going on for quite some time with no realistic end in sight. When you have experienced your partner going through the menopause and the changes it makes you might have a different view. No bragging involved, just maybe somebody has had the same position and is far easier to discuss anonymously than with people who know who you are. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Follyfoot

[Rugeley Villa]

8 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I've told you this a hundred times over PM, and I can't emphasise this enough Ruge, but I'm NOT going to have sex with you, even if your wife is happy about it.

Those late night drunken pms , eh 

[Rugeley Villa]

Me and the missus thought about swinging a few years back to spice things up. Glad we never , and I think it was more fantasy than reality. Other people we knew were doing it. We kind of searched , but nothing came of it. I do remember that week it was spoke about we had great sex most nights that week, so just the talk of it did something to spice things up. Would have been a big mistake and we just aren’t that kind of couple regardless of our past sexual history with each other early days and before we got with each other. 

[bickster]

8 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

until her libido returns

This bit is a fairy tale

I sense a trap

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

Valid points but, again, the key bit is in bold - why get married if lifelong monogamy isn't for you?

There is absolutely no good that can come from "I'm horny so I'll shag someone else", unless the situation happens to change the marriage entirely and they become swingers/have an "open" relationship and somehow this works and doesn't end up with one party getting jealous.

 

Would be interesting to know how the discussion came to a resolution of "go and shag someone else, but not my sister or my friends".  Is this something that he suggested?  Alarm bells, if so.

First things first, we need to take stock of how likely someone is to stick to 'lifelong monogamy'. The best data that we have suggests around 50% of both men and women will break a lifelong monogamous commitment. I say this so that we first of all understand that cheating is something that many people will do and/or have done to them, including many of the people being outraged in this thread.

The most important aspect of a successful relationship is communication; this leads to relationships built on understanding. British people are notoriously bad at this (me included), preferring to shut down and hide rather than have difficult conversations, but it's not better that way. This situation is an example of having a difficult conversation within a relationship.

You ask 'why get married if lifelong monogamy isn't for you'. In return, I ask two questions, the first being 'why pretend that the situation that exists when you get married is going to continue the same unchanged throughout multiple decades of marriage', and the second 'why define marriage as a purely monogamous relationship'. With regard to the first, of course situations change during our lives, and what may have been the best situation when these people got married in 1983 or whenever might not be the thing that works best today. With regard to the second, lots and lots of people do not define marriage as a purely monogamous relationship.

The situation as it appears to be laid out in this thread is that there is a man and a woman, the woman has undergone the menopause and completely lost her libido, and the man still has his. This is a common situation, and those of us with partners who haven't gone through this process yet might want to show a bit of humility about judging what it looks like for different couples. Again, as laid out in this thread, it appears that the man has approached his wife to ask permission to sleep with other women, given that she has no interest in sex, and she has said yes, with some preconditions (no-one I know, don't rub it in my face). Personally, I think this woman has been very mature and also very brave, but I also think this is what I would like to think I would do if I were in the same situation. It's not actually all that great, IMO, for a person who has lost their libido to trap their partner, who still has theirs, in an eternally sexless future. Of course, the wife certainly *could* say 'no', and she has every right to do so, but in practice that would lead to the husband making one of three choices: 1) he could promise that he'll never do more than wank into a flannel for the rest of his days (though note that he's probably going to get pretty resentful of being told this is his sexual future); 2) he could just cheat on her anyway (this is probably what's going to happen! Also note that it's the same result as a 'yes' to the question, though in this case probably a relationship-terminating event), or 3) he could divorce her. Instead, she has reportedly given an option 4) as above, he can have sex outside the marriage, within certain rules and boundaries, they can continue their relationship, and they can both get at least some of what they want (presumably, he wants sex and she wants to not be asked for it any more).

[mikeyp102]

Let’s say this person does go ahead and sleep with someone else. It’s always going to be playing on both their minds. The wife will wonder if he enjoyed it more, whether she was different, or did different things. When they do eventually go back to martial sex, all these things will be going on in her head, and possibly his. 
I just can’t see any good to come of this

[Phil Silvers]

14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

First things first, we need to take stock of how likely someone is to stick to 'lifelong monogamy'. The best data that we have suggests around 50% of both men and women will break a lifelong monogamous commitment. I say this so that we first of all understand that cheating is something that many people will do and/or have done to them, including many of the people being outraged in this thread.

The most important aspect of a successful relationship is communication; this leads to relationships built on understanding. British people are notoriously bad at this (me included), preferring to shut down and hide rather than have difficult conversations, but it's not better that way. This situation is an example of having a difficult conversation within a relationship.

You ask 'why get married if lifelong monogamy isn't for you'. In return, I ask two questions, the first being 'why pretend that the situation that exists when you get married is going to continue the same unchanged throughout multiple decades of marriage', and the second 'why define marriage as a purely monogamous relationship'. With regard to the first, of course situations change during our lives, and what may have been the best situation when these people got married in 1983 or whenever might not be the thing that works best today. With regard to the second, lots and lots of people do not define marriage as a purely monogamous relationship.

The situation as it appears to be laid out in this thread is that there is a man and a woman, the woman has undergone the menopause and completely lost her libido, and the man still has his. This is a common situation, and those of us with partners who haven't gone through this process yet might want to show a bit of humility about judging what it looks like for different couples. Again, as laid out in this thread, it appears that the man has approached his wife to ask permission to sleep with other women, given that she has no interest in sex, and she has said yes, with some preconditions (no-one I know, don't rub it in my face). Personally, I think this woman has been very mature and also very brave, but I also think this is what I would like to think I would do if I were in the same situation. It's not actually all that great, IMO, for a person who has lost their libido to trap their partner, who still has theirs, in an eternally sexless future. Of course, the wife certainly *could* say 'no', and she has every right to do so, but in practice that would lead to the husband making one of three choices: 1) he could promise that he'll never do more than wank into a flannel for the rest of his days (though note that he's probably going to get pretty resentful of being told this is his sexual future); 2) he could just cheat on her anyway (this is probably what's going to happen! Also note that it's the same result as a 'yes' to the question, though in this case probably a relationship-terminating event), or 3) he could divorce her. Instead, she has reportedly given an option 4) as above, he can have sex outside the marriage, within certain rules and boundaries, they can continue their relationship, and they can both get at least some of what they want (presumably, he wants sex and she wants to not be asked for it any more).

100% expert.....................

[Genie]

We just gonna gloss over the fact that she had to politely ask him not to shag her sister? 
It’s suggests that both he, and the sister might be up for it. Mental.

[chrisp65]

 

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

We just gonna gloss over the fact that she had to politely ask him not to shag her sister? 
It’s suggests that both he, and the sister might be up for it. Mental.

100% she has caught him having some sly glances at the sister at christmas lunch or whatever. probably some not so subtle flirting too

one of those that goes without saying, but she felt the need to actually say it!

[lapal_fan]

I'm only making assumptions on the information I'm given, and that info is missing lots and lots of nuance (which I know, as it's a paragraph long), but I'm calling it how I see it.

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

We just gonna gloss over the fact that she had to politely ask him not to shag her sister? 
It’s suggests that both he, and the sister might be up for it. Mental.

To be honest, because it was @Follyfoot, I just assumed that part was a joke or a bit of an exaggeration, but yes, if it wasn't, he definitely shouldn't shag his sister-in-law.

As the responses in this thread illustrate, if she had gone the how-very-dare-you-absolutely-not-you-pig route, the court of public opinion would have been on her side. She's really giving a big gift, something many women wouldn't give, and I wasn't joking when I said it was brave. So because it's a big thing for her to have done, he should probably follow some obvious basic ground rules like:

• Don't shag anyone she knows, or anyone 'complicated';
• Don't brag about it to his mates in the pub, or indeed tell anyone else at all unless she gives permission;
• Wrap his **** dick in latex every single time so that VD and the stork don't join the party;
• If there's ever a conflict between getting his end away and being available physically and emotionally for his wife, it's his dick that takes the back seat every time

etc.

That being said, human relationships are complicated and people don't always know themselves. She might have given him this permission, and felt genuinely sure she would be okay with it, and then when he does it she might realise she was wrong. And he might make all the promises like the above, but then fall in love with a 20-year-old drama student and make a complete scene. He took a huge risk asking, and she took a huge risk saying yes, but just because it was a risk doesn't mean it was wrong. And conversely, not saying anything, becoming resentful and frustrated and emotionally distant would have been easy - wouldn't have needed to say anything at all - but just because it was easy doesn't mean it was right either.

[bickster]

14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Don't shag anyone she knows, or anyone 'complicated';

Blokes only then

[chrisp65]

Only the couple involved and their god can make and judge these decisions. But talking is always better than not talking.

My initial take, I couldn’t currently imagine making that sort of arrangement, but then luckily I’m not in that sort of predicament. 

I guess, if the glove was on the other foot and I developed a condition whereby I wasn’t capable of or interested in physical sex, I think my initial reaction might be disappointment if my partner discussed getting sex elsewhere. But then again, if you keep thinking about it, should you deny that?

It’s not quite as straightforwardly ‘moral’ as it first sounds.

It’s a tricky one. I enjoy messing about with my missus more than I enjoy just ****. I guess personally I would need the relationship to want the sex, which would make it tricky. I’d have to connect with someone, rather than just negotiate an hourly rate.

Would it be worth asking yourself, would your partner consider your secret porn life to be a form of cheating?

It’s a bigger subject than a quick glib paragraph on a messageboard.

 

 

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

First things first, we need to take stock of how likely someone is to stick to 'lifelong monogamy'. The best data that we have suggests around 50% of both men and women will break a lifelong monogamous commitment. I say this so that we first of all understand that cheating is something that many people will do and/or have done to them, including many of the people being outraged in this thread.

The most important aspect of a successful relationship is communication; this leads to relationships built on understanding. British people are notoriously bad at this (me included), preferring to shut down and hide rather than have difficult conversations, but it's not better that way. This situation is an example of having a difficult conversation within a relationship.

You ask 'why get married if lifelong monogamy isn't for you'. In return, I ask two questions, the first being 'why pretend that the situation that exists when you get married is going to continue the same unchanged throughout multiple decades of marriage', and the second 'why define marriage as a purely monogamous relationship'. With regard to the first, of course situations change during our lives, and what may have been the best situation when these people got married in 1983 or whenever might not be the thing that works best today. With regard to the second, lots and lots of people do not define marriage as a purely monogamous relationship.

The situation as it appears to be laid out in this thread is that there is a man and a woman, the woman has undergone the menopause and completely lost her libido, and the man still has his. This is a common situation, and those of us with partners who haven't gone through this process yet might want to show a bit of humility about judging what it looks like for different couples. Again, as laid out in this thread, it appears that the man has approached his wife to ask permission to sleep with other women, given that she has no interest in sex, and she has said yes, with some preconditions (no-one I know, don't rub it in my face). Personally, I think this woman has been very mature and also very brave, but I also think this is what I would like to think I would do if I were in the same situation. It's not actually all that great, IMO, for a person who has lost their libido to trap their partner, who still has theirs, in an eternally sexless future. Of course, the wife certainly *could* say 'no', and she has every right to do so, but in practice that would lead to the husband making one of three choices: 1) he could promise that he'll never do more than wank into a flannel for the rest of his days (though note that he's probably going to get pretty resentful of being told this is his sexual future); 2) he could just cheat on her anyway (this is probably what's going to happen! Also note that it's the same result as a 'yes' to the question, though in this case probably a relationship-terminating event), or 3) he could divorce her. Instead, she has reportedly given an option 4) as above, he can have sex outside the marriage, within certain rules and boundaries, they can continue their relationship, and they can both get at least some of what they want (presumably, he wants sex and she wants to not be asked for it any more).

I think the first part has a massive amount of variance involved - the most prevalent being, what exactly counts as "cheating"? - so I'd be interested to see what the data defines that as.  I find it hard to believe that 50% of people have had sex with another person whilst in a relationship.  I find it harder still to believe that 50% of people have had sex with another person whilst in a happy and loving relationship.  50% of people having kissed someone whilst in a relationship?  Yes, I can completely believe that.  For me, I fall into the latter and not into the former.  I'm absolutely not holier than thou.

The marriage point is fair - personally, I wouldn't be marrying anyone if my core beliefs were that monogamy wouldn't be part of the marriage, but people can (quite rightly) decide on what their relationship should be.  That applies to this guy and his wife too so, despite the moral bleakness, what they decide to do is what they decide to do.

There are a couple of issues that I have with the situation - and what you've written here - and I appreciate that it's a personal view.

The first one is this arrogant assumption that he can just go and "get sex" .  That he has a right to just go and get laid.  The "not my sister or friends" part is particularly interesting.  Are they both of the opinion that this bloke can simply ask her sister or friends for a shag and they'd say yes?  What sort of relationships are those?!

Secondly - and I'm in a long term (happy and loving) relationship so it's been a while since I've been "on the pull" - my experience of having sex with someone is that there are some feelings involved.  I'm no ogre, but I'd assume (perhaps wrongly?) that you'd need to engage in some sort of relationship building before heading to the bedroom.  Maybe a drink with someone, a bit of flirting, some kissing etc.  Personally, I'd need to find that person attractive - there'd be an emotional (for want of a better word) attraction to the person.   It's very unlikely to be a completely cold blooded "I need my release, I'll bang anyone as long as they say yes".  If it is a cold "just anyone" thing, why not consider prostitution first?  Then you're removing the emotional aspect - it becomes a transaction to get your end away and nothing more involved which could adversely impact on the happy and loving relationship with ones wife.  As I say, though, personal view.

Thirdly, the original post said something along the lines of mates' wife has just gone through the change and is on medication, both of which have combined to result in her losing her sex drive.  I think there is some validity in what you're saying from a "no sex for the rest of my life" point of view, but the context seemed to suggest that this is a relatively new change that they are adapting to.  Out of interest, and given that you've said you would like to think you'd offer the same resolution, what kind of time frame would you think is 'acceptable' between last shag with wife and having a discussion about sleeping around because "I need my release"?  Even the consideration around that - you'd absolutely be wanking first; that would be the way of finding your release.  Surely you'd go for a pretty long time 'waiting' for your wife to regain her libido before even thinking about shagging someone else?

Those would be the issues.  The final point is more... is there really any advice needed here?  As you say, it's been an open discussion.  Surely the only question is in his head as to whether he would want to go through with it?  If he feels like it's an act of betrayal, then he shouldn't shag someone else, no?

[Follyfoot]

42 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I'm only making assumptions on the information I'm given, and that info is missing lots and lots of nuance (which I know, as it's a paragraph long), but I'm calling it how I see it.

 

28 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

To be honest, because it was @Follyfoot, I just assumed that part was a joke or a bit of an exaggeration, but yes, if it wasn't, he definitely shouldn't shag his sister-in-law.

As the responses in this thread illustrate, if she had gone the how-very-dare-you-absolutely-not-you-pig route, the court of public opinion would have been on her side. She's really giving a big gift, something many women wouldn't give, and I wasn't joking when I said it was brave. So because it's a big thing for her to have done, he should probably follow some obvious basic ground rules like:

• Don't shag anyone she knows, or anyone 'complicated';
• Don't brag about it to his mates in the pub, or indeed tell anyone else at all unless she gives permission;
• Wrap his **** dick in latex every single time so that VD and the stork don't join the party;
• If there's ever a conflict between getting his end away and being available physically and emotionally for his wife, it's his dick that takes the back seat every time

etc.

That being said, human relationships are complicated and people don't always know themselves. She might have given him this permission, and felt genuinely sure she would be okay with it, and then when he does it she might realise she was wrong. And he might make all the promises like the above, but then fall in love with a 20-year-old drama student and make a complete scene. He took a huge risk asking, and she took a huge risk saying yes, but just because it was a risk doesn't mean it was wrong. And conversely, not saying anything, becoming resentful and frustrated and emotionally distant would have been easy - wouldn't have needed to say anything at all - but just because it was easy doesn't mean it was right either.

It was said in jest, hence the sigh comment in brackets next to it. You have pretty much nailed it but one important fact it was her suggestion. 
 

To any one who has not lived with their partner through a severe menopausal reaction  I suggest they try living through it first rather than making idiotic ill informed judgements. They do not call it the change without good reason

[lapal_fan]

4 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

 

It was said in jest, hence the sigh comment in brackets next to it. You have pretty much nailed it but one important fact it was her suggestion. 
 

To any one who has not lived with their partner through a severe menopausal reaction  I suggest they try living through it first rather than making idiotic ill informed judgements. They do not call it the change without good reason

I'm sure you're not the only one.

I know a couple who went through it in their mid 20s, whilst it wasn't my wife it was someone we know really well.

I wouldn't want my wife to go through an severe reactions.

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

 I suggest they try living through it first rather than making idiotic ill informed judgements

How do you know any of us hasn't?