Everton

[calcifer]

8 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Also, we're not lovable scousers. 

Is there such a thing as a loveable scouser? 

 

[Villa_Vids]

3 minutes ago, calcifer said:

Is there such a thing as a loveable scouser? 

 

Peter Withe and Dennis Mortimer?  Soon to be Stevie G!  

[OutByEaster?]

Of the two clubs I'd sooner see Everton go down than Burnley - that's nothing against Everton, I like them, they're a lot like us in some ways - but in this situation, Burnley could stick around forever and never become a threat to what we want to achieve - Everton are capable of sorting themselves out in a season or two and competing in the top half. From a purely sporting perspective, I'd like the bigger of the two dangers to go away - and that's Everton.

How's that for a back handed compliment?

 

[Guest av1]

6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Of the two clubs I'd sooner see Everton go down than Burnley - that's nothing against Everton, I like them, they're a lot like us in some ways - but in this situation, Burnley could stick around forever and never become a threat to what we want to achieve - Everton are capable of sorting themselves out in a season or two and competing in the top half. From a purely sporting perspective, I'd like the bigger of the two dangers to go away - and that's Everton.

How's that for a back handed compliment?

 

This is pretty much always my take on football. It’s why I’d prefer the likes of Arsenal to get CL football rather than the West Ham’s or Wolves of the world. 
 

People will say it’s better to break the status quo, but big clubs will always be big clubs, the West Ham’s, Wolves, Leicesters of the world are teams we want to complete with so I don’t won’t them pulling away. 
 

I’m probably inviting a warning by quoting a mod and going way off topic  - but the long winded point was that I completely agree. I’d much rather Everton go down than Burnley. 

[useless]

I'd prefer Everton to go down just because it's always more entertaining when a bigger club goes down and them going down would probably be the biggest shock relegation in Premier League history and presumably going a lot further back than that as well, also would make the championship more interesting next season as well.

Burnley still got a lot to do though, three of their last five are away from home, where they've been poor, they really need to beat Watford this weekend, probably in their interests to hope we beat Norwich, in the hope that we're then 'on the beach' in the games when we play them.

Leeds still not completely safe yet, if Everton and Burnley were to win this weekend and they were to lose to Man City, then they would be just two points clear of the bottom three, with Everton in eighteenth place having a game in hand on them, their next three fixtures are also Man City, Arsenal, and Chelsea, albeit the Chelsea game is three days before the Cup Final, so chances are Chelsea wil play a weakened team.

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, av1 said:

This is pretty much always my take on football. It’s why I’d prefer the likes of Arsenal to get CL football rather than the West Ham’s or Wolves of the world. 
 

People will say it’s better to break the status quo, but big clubs will always be big clubs, the West Ham’s, Wolves, Leicesters of the world are teams we want to complete with so I don’t won’t them pulling away. 
 

I’m probably inviting a warning by quoting a mod and going way off topic  - but the long winded point was that I completely agree. I’d much rather Everton go down than Burnley. 

Leicester winning the league moved them from relegation candidates to upper midtable, not to top 4 level (I guess they came pretty close). I really don't think a top 4 finish from the likes of West Ham, Wolves or Everton would make that much difference beyond one season.

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Leicester winning the league moved them from relegation candidates to upper midtable, not to top 4 level (I guess they came pretty close). I really don't think a top 4 finish from the likes of West Ham, Wolves or Everton would make that much difference beyond one season.

It worked for Spurs, although admittedly things were different then.

[Mic09]

13 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Leicester winning the league moved them from relegation candidates to upper midtable, not to top 4 level (I guess they came pretty close). I really don't think a top 4 finish from the likes of West Ham, Wolves or Everton would make that much difference beyond one season.

Leicester were as good as top 4 last 2 seasons. They have shown great consistency and will do well again next year. 

Anything can happen in 38 games to change the league - a dodgy pen, an unfair decision, an injury, a wonder goal. Margins are really fine, and Leicester were up there with the best. 

It's really fine margins, Villa finishing 14th is as good as Villa finishing 10th in my opinion. 

Everton however have been well below the standard of that 15-9th place, and probably deserve to go down based on the performance. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Mic09

[OutByEaster?]

20 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Leicester were as good as top 4 last 2 seasons.

There isn't an "as good as" in terms of being top four or not, it's like "nearly" winning the lottery. I think that was their chance, they've done brilliantly, but they'll now spend half a decade fading into mediocrity. 

Everton will be a very odd side in the Championship if they end up there - they've next to no chance of meeting the demands of Championship FFP and will have to come up with some sort of accounting miracle, their Russian owner can't easily get any of his money to the Iranian man he employs to be "owner" so some of their outside finance is cut off and they've reported the worst three year figures in English football history while suckling on the Premier League TV tit. It could be absolutely catastrophic.

But...

The stadium finance seems secure and the work is going on in an organised and orderly fashion, they've got some decent kids and there's some value in their squad that might help them make the adjustment financially as long as they aren't down more than a couple of seasons and enough talent to suggest they will have a decent chance of coming back up - there's still some hope - a well managed, well run Everton could take this as an opportunity to reset and come back up as a vibrant young side in a new stadium with a much reduced wage budget.

Of course that's dependent on them finding someone to manage them well and someone to run them well.

The next 12 days might genuinely be the most important period in their 144 years of existence.

[The_Steve]

A championship Everton squad will have trouble shifting some of its biggest names and whilst the parachute payments will help, it’s unclear about the ramifications if they cannot get promoted within one year. 

[Mic09]

43 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

There isn't an "as good as" in terms of being top four or not, it's like "nearly" winning the lottery.

It's not exactly like that, all that needs to happen over 38 games is one more 'iffy' decision that the other team and all of a sudden you are 3 points behind. Leicester were very close - and I think quality wise, they were up there. Hence I wouldn't say that a team finishing 12th had a worse season than the team finishing 10th. They must have shown a consistently similar level of performance - the margins are so fine.

But to go back to Everton, they were well below that mark so far, and probably deserve to go down. 

[OutByEaster?]

4 hours ago, Mic09 said:

It's not exactly like that, all that needs to happen over 38 games is one more 'iffy' decision that the other team and all of a sudden you are 3 points behind. Leicester were very close - and I think quality wise, they were up there. Hence I wouldn't say that a team finishing 12th had a worse season than the team finishing 10th. They must have shown a consistently similar level of performance - the margins are so fine.

I agree, from a sporting perspective they weren't far off, but they didn't make it - it's like jumping between two buildings, close doesn't mean anything, getting your fingertips onto the wall doesn't mean anything, you either make it or you don't. The margins are fine, but the rewards aren't. The half dozen points that Leicester needed to turn two 5th positions into two 4th positions will have cost them £200m.

That gap between 4th and 5th is why there's currently a war raging between the Premier League's big six, UEFA, the rest of the Premier league, the UK government and anyone else with football's best interests at heart - the big six have decided they all need that money, every year, in perpetuity in order to maintain their business models and they're ready to destroy the integrity of the game to get it. Six into four doesn't go, so they want to change the rules.

Bridging that gap and trying to break the cartel is massively expensive and if you foul up trying to make the jump, like Everton have, you're in truly enormous trouble - the big difference between Everton's potential relegation and ours is that we'd been around the plughole a few times before we went down - Everton were hoping to break into Europe as recently as last season and were spending accordingly - they've fallen incredibly quickly and it's a real danger to them.

The only gap in the Premier league that makes a more serious difference to a team and its plans than the one between 4th and 5th is the one between 17th and 18th - the one Everton are in - that's jumping between two buildings without the safety net of the Premier league TV money.

Leicester have come up short and I don't think they'll get another chance at it in my lifetime - Everton are reaching desperately for the wall and risking the life of their club.

 

 

 

 

[Tayls]

19 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Of the two clubs I'd sooner see Everton go down than Burnley - that's nothing against Everton, I like them, they're a lot like us in some ways - but in this situation, Burnley could stick around forever and never become a threat to what we want to achieve - Everton are capable of sorting themselves out in a season or two and competing in the top half. From a purely sporting perspective, I'd like the bigger of the two dangers to go away - and that's Everton.

How's that for a back handed compliment?

 

Do you reckon they said the same about us when we dropped? Or would they now if the worst happened this season? 

[The Fun Factory]

23 hours ago, AshVilla said:

Are they not moving into a bumper new stadium as well?

Good luck filling 52k in there playing championship football 

They have already broke ground  and am not sure how easy it would be  to pause construction for a year in the hope they go straight back up.

Still they could do a Coventry and move into a new stadium when they get relegated and not return back to the top flight for over 20 years.

Edited April 27, 2022 by The Fun Factory

[OutByEaster?]

12 minutes ago, Tayls said:

Do you reckon they said the same about us when we dropped? Or would they now if the worst happened this season? 

Probably I guess, I think Everton will have seen us as more of a potential threat than Burnley.

[Stevo985]

4 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

They have already broke ground  and am not sure how easy it would be  to pause construction for a year in the hope they go straight back up.

Still they could do a Coventry and move into a new stadium when they get relegated and not return back to the top flight for over 20 years.

I was going to say this but the Coventry stadium was a bit of a strange situation. I believe that ground was/is owned by the council and Coventry rented/leased it from them.

The issue was they agreed the rent in the premier League and then got relegated it, and then relegated again and suddenly that rent they'd agreed was mega expensive for a League 1 club. Hence them eventually moving out.

 

So the new stadium could cause Everton issues but they wouldn't be the same as Cov

 

(disclaimer: I haven't exactly studied it so i could be totally wrong about Cov's situation)

[MaVilla]

what's the score with their FFP troubles currently?

Even if they stay up, i assume they:

a) wont be making any big signings, and

b) Might need to sell some prize assets?

 

 

[VillaChris]

7 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

what's the score with their FFP troubles currently?

Even if they stay up, i assume they:

a) wont be making any big signings, and

b) Might need to sell some prize assets?

 

 

They'll sell Richarlison for about 200 billion to PSG probably so that will sort things out.

Premier league already gone in with a letter politely asking them not to spend another 200m anytime soon so no chance of points deduction if they stay up.

[Davkaus]

10 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

 

b) Might need to sell some prize assets?

 

 

Do they have any? Can't see them fetching much cash for that chip on their shoulder.

[PaulC]

How good was Pickford today. Massive for Everton. Pressure right on Leeds now.