HanoiVillan Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, bobzy said: It’s not pernickety. They aren’t owned by a nation state. It’s a false statement. Even if you want to say ADUG operate solely for the benefit of the UAE as a state, they don’t own Manchester City. Edit: To be clear, there’s obviously a UAE-interest in how Man City do and I imagine a lot of influence comes from their government/royals. But that is different to owning a club. Edit 2: Also didn’t realise this was the Grealish thread, apologies It''s not meaningfully different, because in the Middle East there is no meaningful distinction between 'business which is majority owned by a company controlled by a member of the royal family' and 'the state'. The separation is purely a matter of names on letterheads, not anything to do with how the business is run or controlled, and especially not whose interests it operates for. To put this another way, City Football Group could not take decisions which ADUG did not approve of, and ADUG could not and definitionally cannot take actions which the government in Abu Dhabi did not approve of. There is no distinction. This is not only true of Man City, but also of Newcastle and PSG as well - it's the nature of politics and business done in an absolute monarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 37 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I'm not sure he contributed little. He played 26 league games. He spent more time on the pitch than Mahrez and Sterling. Yes he'll be annoyed he didn't play yesterday and yes he'll know he needs to improve He played more over the season because for the first 10-15 games, you don't not use a £100m player - you try and let him embed in the squad and see what he can do. It's telling that the later in the season, he played less and Mahrez and Sterling played more, because they were performing better than he was. He lost his place over the season, which isn't a good look. Jack played well against West Ham, which will help him next season, he'll relax now he has his medal, but this season has been a poor one for him, which he acknowledged. He'll be better next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 23, 2022 26 minutes ago, Keyblade said: tl:dr: I think he'd be the first to tell you he underperformed this year. I agree. But the measure to say he's underperformed isn't that he hasn't got 30 goals and assists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Because they're a little weird about how awesome their history is? All the stuff I mentioned is just way worse to me. Guess it's a matter of taste, but I like Liverpool's players and manager a lot better personally. If there was a team I wished Villa would be like it would be the current Liverpool team. I find their style a lot more entertaining too. Each to their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, djdabush said: And despite being on the pitch for more time he contributed far less in goals and assists than both players. 3 goals and 3 assists is an extremely poor return (especially for £100m player) and he'll have to improve drastically in order not be considered a massive flop. He definitely needs to improve. but see above posts as to why comparing goals and assists is a bit odd from Villa fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: He played more over the season because for the first 10-15 games, you don't not use a £100m player - you try and let him embed in the squad and see what he can do. It's telling that the later in the season, he played less and Mahrez and Sterling played more, because they were performing better than he was. He lost his place over the season, which isn't a good look. Jack played well against West Ham, which will help him next season, he'll relax now he has his medal, but this season has been a poor one for him, which he acknowledged. He'll be better next year. I agree. Some people seem to think I'm saying he's been really good this season. He hasn't. He needs to do better. I imagine he knows this as much as anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNVillan Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Don_Simon said: You're comparing Jack going to a team we are absolutely not competing with, who are on a completely different level to us, to a soldier who was serving for Ukraine to instead fight for Russia? This might be the most bat shit crazy thread on VT. And that is some achievement. We’re, by definition of being in the same league, competing with Citeh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Micah Richards is clearly good mates with Jack, he said yesterday that JG agreed he hasn’t performed well enough. That’s as close to the horses mouth as anyone is gonna get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 22 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Because they're a little weird about how awesome their history is? All the stuff I mentioned is just way worse to me. Guess it's a matter of taste, but I like Liverpool's players and manager a lot better personally. If there was a team I wished Villa would be like it would be the current Liverpool team. I find their style a lot more entertaining too. i definitely agree that Liverpool are a more exciting watch than City. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Just now, Stevo985 said: I agree. But the measure to say he's underperformed isn't that he hasn't got 30 goals and assists. That's what players of his caliber (and less) are getting. His teammates all have 25 or more. He isn't even close this season. He's a much better player than Mason Mount, it honestly surprised me when I found out he had 29 this season, it didn't compute. There's no reason why Jack shouldn't be hitting 20 every season, as good as he is and with the players that he's playing with. That was his goal before he was even at City. One he was 2 shy of reaching despite pretty much playing in just 1 competition, and missing a whole third of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 23, 2022 46 minutes ago, Keyblade said: That's what players of his caliber (and less) are getting. His teammates all have 25 or more. He isn't even close this season. He's a much better player than Mason Mount, it honestly surprised me when I found out he had 29 this season, it didn't compute. There's no reason why Jack shouldn't be hitting 20 every season, as good as he is and with the players that he's playing with. That was his goal before he was even at City. One he was 2 shy of reaching despite pretty much playing in just 1 competition, and missing a whole third of the season. His goals and assists should be better, but "that's what players of his calibre are getting" doesn't make sense. Like I said we spent years defending Grealish from this stuff because that isn't his game, and now we're using the same argument against him. It's just a bit weird. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 3 hours ago, MNVillan said: We’re, by definition of being in the same league, competing with Citeh We both know we're not competing with City. However, we also both know that comparing Jack leaving Villa to go to Citeh isn't remotely comparable to a soldier switching sides. Yet, here we are. Have a great day buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Like I said we spent years defending Grealish from this stuff because that isn't his game, and now we're using the same argument against him. It's just a bit weird. nail on the head for me when he was a villa player and we were all shouting from the rooftops about him being world class we batted off the social media types who criticised his goals and assists because his chances created in open play per 90s mins was up there with messi and neymar now he's not a villa player we dont want to use those stats anymore...cant work like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdabush Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 If Grealish had stayed at Villa last season, got 3 goals and 3 assists in the league and was played as conservatively as he did for City you can absolutely guarantee he would be getting lots of criticism. Really weird argument that he was disappointing but because we are Villa fans we can't use statistics that back up that he was poor, we have to quantify it in some other way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 23, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 23, 2022 13 minutes ago, djdabush said: If Grealish had stayed at Villa last season, got 3 goals and 3 assists in the league and was played as conservatively as he did for City you can absolutely guarantee he would be getting lots of criticism. Really weird argument that he was disappointing but because we are Villa fans we can't use statistics that back up that he was poor, we have to quantify it in some other way. Nobody has said you can't use statistics to back up the correct view that he's had a poor season by his standards. Nobody has even said that you can't specifically use goals and assists because he should be doing better All anyone is saying is you can't suddenly start comparing his goals and assists to Mason Mount and Riyhad Mahrez because even Grealish at his absolute peak isn't going to put up those sort of numbers Should Grealish be getting more than 3 goals and 3 assists at City? Yes he should Should he suddenly be getting 30-40 G+A a season? No. He never will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Don't worry lads he won the league he got paid millions City won the league and can chuck billions away. It's fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Grealish on the cover of some cover of a fashion mag and talking about his Gucci deal. Good for him. Funny how they excluded his lockdown breach and driving ban. Cheeky chappy Jack the lad though!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 5 hours ago, Stevo985 said: His goals and assists should be better, but "that's what players of his calibre are getting" doesn't make sense. Like I said we spent years defending Grealish from this stuff because that isn't his game, and now we're using the same argument against him. It's just a bit weird. It wasn't his game, but it is now. He's not running games from midfield anymore, he quite literally plays as a forward most games. His remit has changed, even by the end of his time at Villa. Multiple things can be true at the same time you know. Contexts can change. What was true before is not necessarily true now and vice versa. He wasn't a 100m forward when we were defending him, he was playing in midfield with John McGinn either in the Championship or at the bottom of the PL, or he was playing further forward and feeding players like Trezeguet with all due respect to the guy. We were using his goals/assists in 20/21 to argue how good he was, so it went both ways. Goals and assists are important, and they became increasingly more important the better he and the team he played for got. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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