The Players: Plenty of Blame to Go Around?

[CVByrne]

2 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

If he passes to Mings, their no 16 can get the press on, and there's still no outball, so as you say back to Emi, press, still no outball, then hoof is the only option. Kamara needs midfielders to show for the ball here to allow us to keep possession in useful areas.

Nope. Take risks. The pattern of play was from a previous way of playing football. Hoof ball away and defend. Emery was seething because he told them what to do and they didn't do it. They lost doing something a different manager wanted them to do. 

If they lost doing what they were told then that is fine. To succeed at first you must try 

 

 

[HKP90]

5 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Nope. Take risks. The pattern of play was from a previous way of playing football. Hoof ball away and defend. Emery was seething because he told them what to do and they didn't do it. They lost doing something a different manager wanted them to do. 

If they lost doing what they were told then that is fine. To succeed at first you must try 

 

 

Exactly,  this is what I meant. I didn't mean Kamara was right to hoof, just like it wasn't right to work it back for Emi to hoof. My point was, that it is up to those not on the ball to support the play. Without that and without a viable option, risky or otherwise, you are left with the one option, hoof. Which is the opposite of what Emery wants. This is the challenge really, and it's what we've been crying out for- a system. Why it is taking longer for some to buy into the system Emery is trying to install is a mystery I suppose.

[Mic09]

16 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Can't think of any wholesale mass purchases that completely transformed a team.

Man City took a while for their signings to improve them during the first oil years. Newcastle improved massively thanks to only 4 signings, and as previously mentioned only 1 of them was really the cause. 

If you're not miles off (and we aren't), then a balanced and targeted approach is the best way so as close to guarantee a quick improvement as you can get.

Let's just hope the 2 or 3 world class players we want in the summer can be persuaded to join us. 

Emery will know all this, will know who he wants, will know who is going to step up with us,  and who isn't. He's a very very intelligent man, and when it comes to football intelligence,  there probably aren't many in the world that can compete with him.

Thing is, world class isn't coming to Aston Villa. 

World Class is Vinicius, Mbappe et Al.

Overpriced overhyped transfers in the 100m region is Antony, Mudryk at al (I hope we don't make these).

What we need is 3-4 good, tailored transfers. A smart, experienced sub for Kamara - someone that vastly improves on Dendonker. A winger that has numbers, most likely from Spain. A RB to match Moreno for getting in dangerous areas. A midfield box-to-box to give us a proper engine (our answer to Bruno at Newcastle). A sub to give us something different to Watkins (Is that Duran?)

I'd be surprised if we spent more than 35m for any given transfer. The risks are high, and even if we inflated that to 50/60m, there is little statistical evidence to show that a 50m player will be more successful than a 30m transfer.

Long story short, we are not after world class. We are after the right pieces to our puzzle.

[MrBlack]

14 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Thing is, world class isn't coming to Aston Villa. 

World Class is Vinicius, Mbappe et Al.

Overpriced overhyped transfers in the 100m region is Antony, Mudryk at al (I hope we don't make these).

What we need is 3-4 good, tailored transfers. A smart, experienced sub for Kamara - someone that vastly improves on Dendonker. A winger that has numbers, most likely from Spain. A RB to match Moreno for getting in dangerous areas. A midfield box-to-box to give us a proper engine (our answer to Bruno at Newcastle). A sub to give us something different to Watkins (Is that Duran?)

I'd be surprised if we spent more than 35m for any given transfer. The risks are high, and even if we inflated that to 50/60m, there is little statistical evidence to show that a 50m player will be more successful than a 30m transfer.

Long story short, we are not after world class. We are after the right pieces to our puzzle.

I say world class to mean international standard.  I'd call Kamara a world class quality signing. And I reckon we can persuade 2 or 3 that are international standard to join under Emery thanks to his stature in the game, his contacts, and his existing relationships with some players on our radar. 

The January window looked like we couldn't attract them, but I think that was just timing with those players wanting to see where the end of the season took their current clubs and what options might open up for them. Doesn't mean they'll say no in the summer.

I think the right pieces to our puzzle will be world class, otherwise they won't improve on what we have.  We won't be signing players that aren't better than what we have, and even the likes of Dendoncker are an international player for a decent country. We'll absolutely be targetting world class. And i think Emery will persuade them. 

Getting slightly off topic really, as I'm convinced Emery is going to transform us with just a few new players. And he'll continue improving the ones we have.

[TRO]

21 hours ago, KentVillan said:

I think some of the “wrong players” will become the right players over time through coaching. There will be a few slow learners in the squad who he will keep faith with.

I am not so sure, but will be happy to be proved wrong.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Mic09 said:

Thing is, world class isn't coming to Aston Villa. 

World Class is Vinicius, Mbappe et Al.

Overpriced overhyped transfers in the 100m region is Antony, Mudryk at al (I hope we don't make these).

What we need is 3-4 good, tailored transfers. A smart, experienced sub for Kamara - someone that vastly improves on Dendonker. A winger that has numbers, most likely from Spain. A RB to match Moreno for getting in dangerous areas. A midfield box-to-box to give us a proper engine (our answer to Bruno at Newcastle). A sub to give us something different to Watkins (Is that Duran?)

I'd be surprised if we spent more than 35m for any given transfer. The risks are high, and even if we inflated that to 50/60m, there is little statistical evidence to show that a 50m player will be more successful than a 30m transfer.

Long story short, we are not after world class. We are after the right pieces to our puzzle.

Totally agree.....we could easily blow another £100 mill, if we are not careful.

We need to be sure the targets we make are players that are going to effectively raise our game.....thats not necessarily huge transfer fee's....but its not necessarily 10-15 mill transfers either.

we have to do due dilligence, and not just who's available.

[AVTuco]

On 23/02/2023 at 18:05, CVByrne said:

Well our human eyes, we saw it ourselves. Martinez waa the worst offender. Their 3rd goal came from Kamara kicking a long ball to nobody and they scored from the next attack. 

The Athletic had still photos from the game for each of our long kicks upfield to give away possession in the final 15mins. So the effort going into that is good analysis. 

 

You must be wrong. Kamara does not make mistakes.

[villa4europe]

Hard to see it on that photo but for me that's why we need another top midfielder

Easy to say he should have kept possession but wheres the simple 5 to 10 yard pass for him? The ref is in a great position... I would want our player there... From that snap shot he has mings on, that's about it, arsenal have good shape we tend to not have good movement

[rodders0223]

On 23/02/2023 at 18:06, CVByrne said:

When we look at it. The turmoil in the squad has been significant. 

We've had 3 different managers over the last 4 transfer windows.

We need a consistent vision. Need 4 players signed for the first team 

It's actually 4. Smith. Beale. Critchley. Emery.

[TRO]

5 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Hard to see it on that photo but for me that's why we need another top midfielder

Easy to say he should have kept possession but wheres the simple 5 to 10 yard pass for him? The ref is in a great position... I would want our player there... From that snap shot he has mings on, that's about it, arsenal have good shape we tend to not have good movement

some lack in football savvy....hence the positional sense at times is iffy.

its another element, in what makes players better than others.

[Zatman]

Unai gets a lot of deserved credit but the  players do too. Its not easy to buy into the ideas of a genius.

 

Plus a lot were criticised in the media for letting the last "manager" down so takes a lot of character to fight that off and piss off the media

[Panto_Villan]

27 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Unai gets a lot of deserved credit but the  players do too. Its not easy to buy into the ideas of a genius.

 

Plus a lot were criticised in the media for letting the last "manager" down so takes a lot of character to fight that off and piss off the media

Yes, I’d agree it’s definitely a credit to the players that they’re willing to be taught. That might have been one of the appeals of coming to Villa for Emery - there’s no bad apples or egos that think they know better than the manager.

[ender4]

Ooo I think this thread is interesting now.  The answer is that there is no blame at all on any of the players, we have since found out it was 100% completely the old managers fault.

Edited June 1, 2023 by ender4

[HalfTimePost]

No

[MrBlack]

The immediate response to the teachings of Emery showed us Gerrard was toxic. The sustained form showed us Gerrard was incompetent. 

The players have no blame here. 

[PussEKatt]

On 01/06/2023 at 02:59, ender4 said:

Ooo I think this thread is interesting now.  The answer is that there is no blame at all on any of the players, we have since found out it was 100% completely the old managers fault.

I remember people were sling off about the players bieng below par in the D.S era as well.

[Pinebro]

Not on the players at all as it turns out.

Shockingly bad coaching brings shockingly bad performances. Who knew?

Edited June 2, 2023 by Pinebro

[DeadlyDirk]

On 06/01/2023 at 23:57, Marka Ragnos said:

This one kind of gets me, too. I mean, why aren't we in Seventh? I know, I know. That's naff. It's simplistic. And hey, look at Chelsea. But still ... don't we deserve more from this payroll, or we should reduce something? Something doesn't add up. It's a little scary, too. One would think we need to be careful about our ROIs.
 

We are now baby!  

[Greenfly]

This thread proved an interesting read. I have to admit, before Emery came along I never realised just how much of an impact a proper manager can have. This is a squad that is comfortably top half quality, and it's crazy how long it has taken for that to be demonstrated.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Smith was always big on personality when signing players so I don’t think there were any bad eggs in the camp. Gerrard was just an idiot and way out of his depth.