villa4europe Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 agree a freeze frame is deceptive...but mings in the middle marking two men while konsa stands all by himself is pretty much what most of us who defend ty every week are talking about same with their number 8 jogging past our number 41 you then look how mcginn has dropped back to help cover cash while the left sided midfielder hasnt - but out of the 3 problems here that is probably by design i would say from that shot its konsa and dendoncker i would have the biggest issue with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 hours ago, villa4europe said: agree a freeze frame is deceptive...but mings in the middle marking two men while konsa stands all by himself is pretty much what most of us who defend ty every week are talking about same with their number 8 jogging past our number 41 you then look how mcginn has dropped back to help cover cash while the left sided midfielder hasnt - but out of the 3 problems here that is probably by design i would say from that shot its konsa and dendoncker i would have the biggest issue with Ramsey as well just seems be shadowing Kamara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, villa4europe said: agree a freeze frame is deceptive...but mings in the middle marking two men while konsa stands all by himself is pretty much what most of us who defend ty every week are talking about same with their number 8 jogging past our number 41 you then look how mcginn has dropped back to help cover cash while the left sided midfielder hasnt - but out of the 3 problems here that is probably by design i would say from that shot its konsa and dendoncker i would have the biggest issue with I can't remember exactly what's happened, but from the two freeze frames (and, yes, they're poor when assessed on their own) it looks like the Arsenal player (Martinelli?) is taking the ball down the line - Konsa's move towards the near post would be a natural move for the centre back on that side to block a potential low cross and Nketiah has run off Mings into a gap centrally in the penalty area - presumably for the same reason, but from an attacking standpoint. Judging by Konsa's weighting on the second frame, it looks like he's moving back from that position after Martinelli has cut back? Ramsey/Kamara have missed Jorginho, essentially - with Odegaard being able to run off Ramsey in the box. The rest of it looks worse than it actually is I think. Edited February 23, 2023 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 In the full clip, Ramsey has a serious lack of awareness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 9 hours ago, ozvillafan said: Sign 1 that your central defenders aren't doing their job: When they are drawn to the ball and off their man. Konsa is marking no-one - may as well replace him with those cut-outs they use when practicing free-kicks. Mings is on the wrong man and completely unaware of what is behind him because he's too far forward- since he's been drawn towards the ball. Anyone remember Dunne and Collins? They used to get opened up easily because Collins was always drawn to the ball (and then doing last ditch slide tackles) which left Dunne trying to cover both positions. In this picture, it's Digne trying to cover that position. This sounds just like the second Leicester goal scored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 These are highly paid professionals. Of course they should be capable of implementing the manager's instructions, but they should also be capable of independant thought. That ability is not there. They are just not quite good enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 23 hours ago, CVByrne said: Position in the table is pretty much irrelevant imo. What matters is performances. Do we see an upward trajectory in terms of performances. We all know we lack the players for building from the back to the standard required. A new CB and RB from the ones we've used so far will transform that hopefully. Then we need a 3rd CM option who is real competition for Luiz/Kamara. One who can play RM or LM too would be perfect. Guendouzi perhaps. Finally another attacking option to play with Watkins. We need to see the basis of a performing team that gives us confidence the new additions solve the problems and gaps we have. I don't know how much more proof people need to see that this group of players on the whole just aren't up to it. They're mentally weak, and just hugely inconsistent. After two new manager bounces under Gerrard and Emery, they soon revert to type. Sloppy passes and stupid mistakes in defence. Yet a new contract for Mings is celebrated almost like we've won the FA Cup. We need at least 3-4 new first team starters, and those acquisitions should have started this January. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 50 minutes ago, Risso said: I don't know how much more proof people need to see that this group of players on the whole just aren't up to it. They're mentally weak, and just hugely inconsistent. After two new manager bounces under Gerrard and Emery, they soon revert to type. Sloppy passes and stupid mistakes in defence. Yet a new contract for Mings is celebrated almost like we've won the FA Cup. We need at least 3-4 new first team starters, and those acquisitions should have started this January. I read the Athletic article about why Emery was so angry after the Arsenal loss. The players refused to take the risks and be brave and hold possession. The list of players just booting the ball long and turning over possession. Emi, Konsa, Kamara etc.. and not once was Mings mentioned. Why Emery likes Mings is he's doing what he's being asked to do on the pitch. The application of the gameplan. The issue is there is not enough players who will be brave like this. Not enough quality in the key moments. The key players in this are the Goalkeeper, the two 6s and the 3 CBs (the RB will be a RCB next season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 37 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I read the Athletic article about why Emery was so angry after the Arsenal loss. The players refused to take the risks and be brave and hold possession. The list of players just booting the ball long and turning over possession. Emi, Konsa, Kamara etc.. and not once was Mings mentioned. Why Emery likes Mings is he's doing what he's being asked to do on the pitch. The application of the gameplan. The issue is there is not enough players who will be brave like this. Not enough quality in the key moments. The key players in this are the Goalkeeper, the two 6s and the 3 CBs (the RB will be a RCB next season). Who said Kamara was booting it long exactly? Don't believe everything The Athletic writes. Praising Mings at the expense of Kamara (our best player on the ball IMO) is odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Who said Kamara was booting it long exactly? Don't believe everything The Athletic writes. Praising Mings at the expense of Kamara (our best player on the ball IMO) is odd. Well our human eyes, we saw it ourselves. Martinez waa the worst offender. Their 3rd goal came from Kamara kicking a long ball to nobody and they scored from the next attack. The Athletic had still photos from the game for each of our long kicks upfield to give away possession in the final 15mins. So the effort going into that is good analysis. Edited February 23, 2023 by CVByrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Tom13 said: I really am no expert on defensive positioning, but this looks awful to me? Just before Jorginho hit it for their third. You have Digne with three men at the back post, four men around Vieira and Odegaard. Two men on Martinelli, with extra support from Dendoncker, and then any midfield runners (Jorginho in this example) completely free to run in. You don't need to be an expert.....years of watching football, should tell us, that is neither here or there. There is always divided opinion, between "zonal marking" or "man for man"......both have their merits, and both have their shortfalls. but what is clear, if its not working, whatever a team chooses....you have to get it to work. For me here.....too many Arsenal players free, and too many Villa Players marking fresh air......I get setting up in a line, but that is like a gaggle of geese. There is also a need for Defensive intelligence, where we go after runners, and get blocks in....too often we are static and caught in the headlights...expecting someone else to do it ( whatever it, is) There is not enough Savvy, courage, determination, or Aggression to make that challenge....all too often, we end up all looking at each other. Newcastle, had all this under Bruce, leaking goals for fun.....but they changed their Back 5 bolstered the midfield with Guimares (under Howe,) and the rest, we know. Edited February 23, 2023 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 23, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 hour ago, CVByrne said: Well our human eyes, we saw it ourselves. Martinez waa the worst offender. Their 3rd goal came from Kamara kicking a long ball to nobody and they scored from the next attack. The Athletic had still photos from the game for each of our long kicks upfield to give away possession in the final 15mins. So the effort going into that is good analysis. In fairness, looking at that picture Kamara has got nothing on. No one is showing for the simple ball, and any pass he makes there is going to be a risk. That said he does seem to be in enough space to bring it down and move with it himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, HKP90 said: In fairness, looking at that picture Kamara has got nothing on. No one is showing for the simple ball, and any pass he makes there is going to be a risk. That said he does seem to be in enough space to bring it down and move with it himself. Simple pass to Mings and Mings pass to Martinez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, HKP90 said: In fairness, looking at that picture Kamara has got nothing on. No one is showing for the simple ball, and any pass he makes there is going to be a risk. That said he does seem to be in enough space to bring it down and move with it himself. I agree with the analytics.....but there is still enough turf, between where the ball lands and where the goal line is. We still had enough time and space to win the ball back.....its not as if we lost the ball 10 yards out, in front of goal. The problem is, its a double whammy....this current crop, not only give it away cheaply, they are not over anxious to win it back when they have give it away. That is encapsulated in to " Too easy to play against"......its been with us for a fair stretch of time. I also think the many comments of a lack of football savvy/intelligence is a fair one too, our positional sense is challenged by it. Edited February 23, 2023 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, villa4europe said: agree a freeze frame is deceptive...but mings in the middle marking two men while konsa stands all by himself is pretty much what most of us who defend ty every week are talking about same with their number 8 jogging past our number 41 you then look how mcginn has dropped back to help cover cash while the left sided midfielder hasnt - but out of the 3 problems here that is probably by design i would say from that shot its konsa and dendoncker i would have the biggest issue with yep. passive. Sluggish Edited February 23, 2023 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 7 hours ago, Tom13 said: In the full clip, Ramsey has a serious lack of awareness. I think that is in general, not just this game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 4 hours ago, AntrimBlack said: These are highly paid professionals. Of course they should be capable of implementing the manager's instructions, but they should also be capable of independant thought. That ability is not there. They are just not quite good enough. sadly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Risso said: I don't know how much more proof people need to see that this group of players on the whole just aren't up to it. They're mentally weak, and just hugely inconsistent. After two new manager bounces under Gerrard and Emery, they soon revert to type. Sloppy passes and stupid mistakes in defence. Yet a new contract for Mings is celebrated almost like we've won the FA Cup. We need at least 3-4 new first team starters, and those acquisitions should have started this January. I think your comments are apt.....but in reference to Mings, have you seen us when he's not playing? This highlights the issues with the squad......He is arguably our best defender and still he's riddled with errors. The whole squad is bereft of players with a natural nose/ tendency for defending.......We need a few who have a built in radar to detect danger and be first to snuff it out....not caught in the headlights. I know this won't go down well....but I stand by it. Edited February 23, 2023 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 23, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2023 45 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Simple pass to Mings and Mings pass to Martinez. If he passes to Mings, their no 16 can get the press on, and there's still no outball, so as you say back to Emi, press, still no outball, then hoof is the only option. Kamara needs midfielders to show for the ball here to allow us to keep possession in useful areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 When we look at it. The turmoil in the squad has been significant. We've had 3 different managers over the last 4 transfer windows. We need a consistent vision. Need 4 players signed for the first team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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