Steven Gerrard

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, tomav84 said:

yesterday was a strange game to be fair and one that had we not lost the last 4 we'd have approached differently. we were playing for 0-0 in the last 5 mins because we didn't want another 5 losses in a row.

i fundamentally disagree with nothing to latch on to at the moment. yesterday showed clear improvement IMO.

Improvement from a 4 game losing streak sure, but there are no broader signs that point to a more positive trend. We just kind of plod along through games and hope that our forward players click.

To be fair, it was there his first 2 or 3 months in the job. We were playing quick one touch passing and we looked like a well coached side with our patterns of play. For whatever reason, that's all gone out the window in 2022, and it's worrying.

We have good, tactically flexible players at this club. We don't expect you to win every game, but the least we expect is a team that displays the fruits of what goes on on the training pitch. 

While we were on a 2 week break, Leicester played 4 matches. Somehow we looked just as unprepared and ragged as them. That's worrying. There's no way that the solution to this problem is a summer clear out + shopping splurge on new players.

[markavfc40]

I think the degree to how poorly you think Gerrard is doing, as I don't think anyone would claim is he is doing well, is how you rated the squad he inherited and how much impact in terms of improvement you think the signings should have made since then and how much Gerrard should have improved what he inherited.

Personally I think he inherited a decent squad. A squad capable of finishing around 10th-13th. One that when he took over was under achieving. Had it not been Smith would not have got the push and a fair chunk of the fan base would not have been clamouring for that to happen.

He has now been here 6 months, had 20 odd games and signed one of the world's most expensive players and currently one the Prem leagues best left backs. In terms of results and performances we are still pretty much where he found us.

I know there are some amongst us who don't particularly rate our squad. For me I think it is a squad with plenty of ability but lacking leadership and enough players with a winning mentality. I think a lot of squads outside the top 7 or 8 lack those real top level players with a winners mentality who can really influence others though. I think ability wise we match up well, and are arguably better on paper, than most sides outside the top 8 or 9. 

Before the Tottenham game I was stood looking at our team sheet and thought crikey we have a real decent side here. Nine full internations starting including a couple for Brazil, three for England, a French international and Argentinian. A bench with three players on that over the last couple of years cost us in excess of 80 million. Arguably the strongest first 11/squad since the days of MON.

I think all things considered, what Gerrard inherited, what he has added, the time he has now had, then I don't think it is unreasonable to have expected him to have done better. Possibly much better.

He has a pretty favourable run of fixtures now to end the season and hopefully we can secure another 3 or 4 wins and finish at the lower end of my expectations when he arrived in around 12th.  It is then a huge summer for him personally and more importantly our club as a whole. He'll no doubt get a small fortune to spend in fees and wages, and I think given he/the owners will now want quick progress I expect much of it to go on more experienced players with little sell on value. If he gets it wrong and we don't start next season well he will find himself under pressure and potentially out of a job and his career path looking very different to when he arrived and we'll almost certainly have a wage bill that doesn't reflect our league position. Let's hope for his sake and ours he gets it right. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by markavfc40

[Phil Silvers]

My feeling is that there are too many individual thinkers on the pitch, they go about there own business in a reactive panic mode way of do things instead of functioning as a unit. I've said many times, as have others, what we do off the ball is killing us, WHY? 

There is a lot of pressure in trying to build something to take on those that are better and that have had a ten year head start and I think quite a few of them cannot handle it. 

[useless]

Apart from the odd game here and there we weren't playing brilliant football under Smith, not just this season but last season as well, last time we played consistently good football was probably back in the championship, we weren't some great footballing team with Smith as manager, so not sure why Gerrard's suddenly expected to have us playing super slick football, however he wants us to play will take time, whilst he works out which players are good enough, the players themselves get used to what's needed, he has a pre season, and yes him signing some more of his own players, not sure why that's being used as a negative, or being framed as him needing to rebuild the team, he's not going to rebuild the team, he's going to sign a bunch of players the same as any other manager would

This time last year we went on a run where we won just one game in eight, that wasn't exactly pointing to a positive trend.

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, useless said:

Apart from the odd game here and there we weren't playing brilliant football under Smith, not just this season but last season as well, last time we played consistently good football was probably back in the championship, we weren't some great footballing team with Smith as manager, so not sure why Gerrard's suddenly expected to have us playing super slick football, however he wants us to play will take time, whilst he works out which players are good enough, the players themselves get used to what's needed, he has a pre season, and yes him signing some more of his own players, not sure why that's being used as a negative, or being framed as him needing to rebuild the team, he's not going to rebuild the team, he's going to sign a bunch of players the same as any other manager would

This time last year we went on a run where we won just one game in eight, that wasn't exactly pointing to a positive trend.

Just not true. 

I'd say nearly every game till Christmas last year saw some fantastic football. Even the games we lost like Brighton and Southampton, our Expected goals were through the roof. After Christmas, which coincided with an awful covid outbreak and injuries, this started to change. 

But you seem to really want to go out of your way to change the past in regard to Gerrard at the moment. 

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, useless said:

Apart from the odd game here and there we weren't playing brilliant football under Smith, not just this season but last season as well, last time we played consistently good football was probably back in the championship, we weren't some great footballing team with Smith as manager, so not sure why Gerrard's suddenly expected to have us playing super slick football, however he wants us to play will take time, whilst he works out which players are good enough, the players themselves get used to what's needed, he has a pre season, and yes him signing some more of his own players, not sure why that's being used as a negative, or being framed as him needing to rebuild the team, he's not going to rebuild the team, he's going to sign a bunch of players the same as any other manager would

This time last year we went on a run where we won just one game in eight, that wasn't exactly pointing to a positive trend.

Don't want to bite on this Smith vs Gerrard stuff as this has nothing to do with Smith, but I mean, this is simply not true is it? First half of last season, we were one of the best teams in the league in terms of team performances.

Apart from maybe Manchester City I'd say we were the best team to watch, even if the results didn't always reflect it. We were in the top 5 top rated teams in all of Europe on Whoscored for about half the season, and finished the season as the 3rd highest rated team in the PL. Third highest shots per game in the league, 5th most chances created etc. It was the best football I've seen Villa play in all my years supporting them.

[Phil Silvers]

Smith v Gerrard argument is silly, hated the switch at the time but it is at least going to be a sideways move with an upping of our profile, Coutihno is important too and we could do with an upturn to help sell the club to prospective high profile signings in the summer.

[nick76]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

even Smith had bad spells early on (2 wins in 14 in the promotion season) before the 10 wins in a row. Managers need time IMO. Call me crazy! 

Thats why i think Gerrard should be given time and a summer window. 

But in the mean time we aren’t allowed to discuss what we are seeing? We aren’t allowed to discuss that Gerrard and coaching team haven’t got much out of the group they already have and will largely be the core of his team next season?

Even with a lot of transfer activity you would still expect at least half of these players to be regular starters next season and so we have to judge the coaching of current players.  Yes preseason will help, new players will help but I would’ve expected some reaction from some players even briefly by now but you could argue some players have regressed.

Management has to be more than just buying new players.  He was always going to be given the summer but the biggest disappointment is that we have seen very little to hold hope on in terms of coaching, tactics, strategy, drive, pressing and many more attributes improving on the players he has in almost six months being here.  Yes only six months but it’s also not an insignificant time to see little changes and he’s had periods without games to work with the players but I’m not seeing that on the pitch.

It just worries me that the golden egg is buying players in the summer, which definitely will help but then they need coaching, tactics, strategy and I’m struggling to see differences in the current players from before to then hope coaching on better players will reap rewards. You don’t just buy better players and everything is good, you then need the management and coaching to do their thing and that is worrying based on current performances, tactics and strategies even if you exclude the results.  What we are watching isn’t great.

[foreveryoung]

14 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Don't want to bite on this Smith vs Gerrard stuff as this has nothing to do with Smith, but I mean, this is simply not true is it? First half of last season, we were one of the best teams in the league in terms of team performances.

Apart from maybe Manchester City I'd say we were the best team to watch, even if the results didn't always reflect it. We were in the top 5 top rated teams in all of Europe on Whoscored for about half the season, and finished the season as the 3rd highest rated team in the PL. Third highest shots per game in the league, 5th most chances created etc. It was the best football I've seen Villa play in all my years supporting them.

It was the Grealish show under Smith. Proved in the end Smith couldn't work consistently without Grealish.

Big problem at the moment is we can't score goals. As far as I can see we are creating plenty of chances, but none of our players can finish. 

One thing with Gerrard is he can attract good players, if it ends up not working out with him, i'm sure with the players we will have, someone a bit more experienced will be able to turn it round pretty quickly.

 

[Stevo985]

He’s got my support for now as I think it’s too early to make any rash decisions. 
 

But he needs to improve things quickly. Once he has a summer window and a pre season under his belt there’s no more excuses. 

[nick76]

1 hour ago, rodders0223 said:

PPG and all the stats people want...the football is awful.i don't want to go to VP I don't want to renew my season ticket.

We go out with no energy no vigour no attacking intent. Sure we beat the most open team in the world in Southampton and bagged a few against a ridiculous Leeds side at the time.

Aside from that and a few results it's been utterly utterly turgid.

Lambert football with 30m footballers.

Yep and watch next week if we beat Norwich, some will say it proves Gerrard and we’ll hear “where are the knockers now” which really misses the point.

My mom whose 77 next week is thinking of calling it quits on her season ticket finally as the concession ticket is likely going up much more than 10% as we hear, the transportation issues getting away from Villa Park are worse and the football. She said if the football was just a bit more like they gave a shit and some drive then she’d try and cope with the other crap at her age but she’s seriously thinking it’s not worth it.  

This should be our most exciting time with where the club is but apathy all around the place because of the football being served.

[The Fun Factory]

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Yep and watch next week if we beat Norwich, some will say it proves Gerrard and we’ll hear “where are the knockers now” which really misses the point.

My mom whose 77 next week is thinking of calling it quits on her season ticket finally as the concession ticket is likely going up much more than 10% as we hear, the transportation issues getting away from Villa Park are worse and the football. She said if the football was just a bit more like they gave a shit and some drive then she’d try and cope with the other crap at her age but she’s seriously thinking it’s not worth it.  

This should be our most exciting time with where the club is but apathy all around the place because of the football being served.

And yet we sell out every home game, more or less. I wonder where this extra 10,000 fans have come from?

[Xela]

14 minutes ago, nick76 said:

But in the mean time we aren’t allowed to discuss what we are seeing? We aren’t allowed to discuss that Gerrard and coaching team haven’t got much out of the group they already have and will largely be the core of his team next season?

No issue with that. Writing him off already is folly though, when he's only had 21 league games. Not that you are, but others are doing that. 

[nick76]

Just now, The Fun Factory said:

And yet we sell out every home game, more or less. I wonder where this extra 10,000 fans have come from?

I think promotion, football being back after covid, the owners splashing the cash and the start of last season when up until Xmas we were playing great football.  As always with the Villa it’s the hope that kills you….buying Ings, Bailey and Buendia in the summer brings hope, adding Coutinho and Digne adds to that, young talented kids on the verge of first team football and then you get to the match and it lets you down

[Xela]

6 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Yep and watch next week if we beat Norwich, some will say it proves Gerrard and we’ll hear “where are the knockers now” which really misses the point.

My mom whose 77 next week is thinking of calling it quits on her season ticket finally as the concession ticket is likely going up much more than 10% as we hear, the transportation issues getting away from Villa Park are worse and the football. She said if the football was just a bit more like they gave a shit and some drive then she’d try and cope with the other crap at her age but she’s seriously thinking it’s not worth it.  

This should be our most exciting time with where the club is but apathy all around the place because of the football being served.

Sorry to hear that about your Mom, but it can't surely be down to the football? She would have seen the years under Lambert!   I nearly scooped my eyes out then! 

The transportation side I can get. Its just getting worse from what I am hearing. I very rarely go down anymore. If something becomes a major hassle then its just not bothering with, plus adding into the rising cost of football and the cost of living increases we're all suffering with. Its not a working class pastime anymore. 

I just think this season is petering out and we will see the real Gerrard next season. I'm quietly confident of that... or deluded in other peoples minds 

 

[KentVillan]

This forum all season has largely been a reaction to the difficulty of our fixtures.

I felt Gerrard would struggle over last 5 games, and I now think we’ll go on a strong run.

We have games in hands / easier fixtures than several of the sides above us. Pretty sure we’ll finish around 11th.

What will be funny is how everyone will the. claim Gerrard has turned it around at the end of the season. We seem completely blind to how much better some teams are than others in this league. The gulf between Liverpool/City and Norwich/Burnley is vast.

[TRO]

10 hours ago, Keyblade said:

One thing that doesn't sit right with me is the notion that this isn't "his team". I was under the impression that we moved to a more "continental" model as it were, as a club. In that we have a model for the profile of player that we bring to the club, to fit a certain template or style of play. The idea being that no one staff member is irreplaceable. We can sack the head coach and bring in another to pick up where he left off and continue in the same vein. Think Brentford for example. Smith leaves, Frank replaces him and the club doesn't miss a beat.

But apparently now, after just the first managerial change under this new model, we need a huge squad clear out/overhaul and to spend a bunch of money to suit the manager and his style, when we've been led to believe it's supposed to be the other way around. This is the very thing that led to our downfall under Lerner, and what buried teams like Sunderland and why Everton currently look like they're headed the same way. 

Again, this isn't a knock on Gerrard at all, as I know people are super defensive over the guy for some reason. This is me questioning our ownership/higher ups, for the first time in 3 years really. 

Are you having a laugh....Frank has transformed Brentford, from a smallish side in stature, with inconsistent tendencies, to a physically equipped team, who are hard to beat....They now have a reputation, of teams not wanting to play them....that is in contrast to Deans hit and miss easy on the eye version.

Look hard and long at the make-up, the stature and the transformation of the job Thomas Frank has done.....He has a different outlook to Dean Smith, to brand them the same, is folly.....Thomas has a tough/durable team now....Dean did not.

Back to us....

I think the owners see clearly what the issues are, but allow managers the freedom to manage.....SG was brought in to change a team that was finding it easy to lose and 2021 as a calendar year is evidence of that.

So far, he hasn't done that much to change it, but I disagree with you.....it is not essentially his team......The make up of this team is still Deans.......sure what SG does with them, is down to him, but its harsh to completely judge him with the tools he has.

I also disagree with this notion of building a team that is impervious to the style of manager, fliting in and out......you usually change managers, for a reason, and those reasons are usually, not winning enough games, so do you restrict the new man an opportunity to effect his methods to change that....or compel him to stick to the exit managers ways......That's ludicrous to me.

Was Klopp the same as Rodgers?......Was Nuno/Conte  the same as Mourinho?......Man U have tried umpteen styles of manager to not much affect.

You can go through all the Premier league teams, and incoming managers wants to change players to their liking.....sure some have bigger jobs than others, some have easier tweaks than others, some need overhauls....it depends on the balance of the team inherited.

Equally, I can't be certain SG will make it with us.....I think he will and despite me still seeing similar team traits as under Smith....I think if he gets the right players in to make the right changes, he can transform us.

Clear outs or mere tweaks, largely depend on how you bought in the first place.....sure other elements come in like coaching, tactics, game plans etc......but if you have bought the wrong players in the first place, tactics, gameplans, become oh so more difficult to get right.

Lets see what he does in the summer and what types he brings in.....then we will have a better picture, of what we have as a manager.......ME, I still favour him to get it right.

I happen to think Recruitment, is one of the biggest elements to get right, in transforming a football team.....so far he has brought in one permanent first team player.

Edited April 24, 2022 by TRO

[Sulberto21]

55 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Just not true. 

I'd say nearly every game till Christmas last year saw some fantastic football. Even the games we lost like Brighton and Southampton, our Expected goals were through the roof. After Christmas, which coincided with an awful covid outbreak and injuries, this started to change. 

But you seem to really want to go out of your way to change the past in regard to Gerrard at the moment. 

Totally agree. We played the best football out of anyone until we had the covid outbreak at the club. Only exceptions were Leeds second half at home and Southampton first 60 minutes even then we had more chances than them. 

We were in the top 3 for best defence until the Covid stuff. Hardly conceded chances and created loads. Jack was sensational and should have had more goals.

Covid effed our season last season.

However Dean Smith said something after the Chelsea game which makes me think Gerrard at least needs a pre-season for him to implement his own ideas and tactics etc. he mentioned that managers need at least 3/4 seasons to shape the squad how they want it. So for now I’m willing to give Gerrard a bit of time to improve us and get us up the table. 

We've been good in some games bad in others and then meh at other times under him.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Sulberto21

[sharkyvilla]

46 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Smith v Gerrard argument is silly, hated the switch at the time but it is at least going to be a sideways move with an upping of our profile, Coutihno is important too and we could do with an upturn to help sell the club to prospective high profile signings in the summer.

Yeah I have no issues with the timing of Dean leaving, as gutting as it was to lose him and Jack in such a short amount of time.  My issue is with the recruitment process when replacing him.  People on here knew it would be Gerrard the day before Dean was sacked, for example.  There weren't any real rumours of us scouring the whole of Europe looking for the best coach possible to fit the system we have been trying to introduce since NSWE took over.  It just seemed a week of getting closer to the inevitability of Gerrard taking over.  I just don't see why he was such an overwhelming favourite. 

The best thing about him so far has been his name getting the likes of Coutinho and Digne into the club but even that has a limit before footballers actually realise he is just a mid-table manager of a mid-table team at the end of the day, for all his achievements as a player.  I'm worried we won't get the Coutinho deal over the line now.  I have hope that we can still get it done though and if Gerrard and the club can sign him permanently then I'd be a hell of a lot more positive for next season.  If we can't then I struggle to see what kind of calibre player we can get in to replace the players Gerrard has made it clear he doesn't want and who he may end up still having to use.

[Tom13]

So this week he's said he was frustrated at Rangers' transfer ambitions, it's not all about transfers Stevie, you have to work with what you've got.

He also takes credit for Gio's success, who I believe has already surpassed him in Europe?

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Tom13