Steven Gerrard

[sne]

The manager is brought in to do the best job possible from day one and then every day. Not just after 2 years when he's signed a whole new team of players. This "his team" stuff is nonsense.

It's a mitigating circumstance perhaps, but you mitigate it by playing to the strengths that's in the team you have. Not by being dogmatic with some tactic that clearly doesn't work most weeks and the players can't execute but that might work after wholesale player upheaval.

There are loads of managers who's doing much more with less and I don't buy into the notion that we have a squad full of surrender monkeys who have no fight in them. Most of them are international players who have fought hard to be where they are in competition with very good players. The group mentality might be crap at the moment but that's for Gerrard to fix, it's part of his job.

[useless]

There are not loads of managers that are doing much more with less than Gerrard, that's just not true, teams that have done better than us since he was appointed are the top six which you would expect, West Ham and Wolves which you'd also expect, Brentford, but they've only taken one more point and have played two more games, and Newcastle who have been doing better than most teams never mind us.

We're eleventh in the form guide since he was appointed, Brentford just above played two more games, and West Ham nineth, two more points, will have also played two more games than us after they've played away to Chelsea today.

Overall with Gerrard we've been doing about as well as would be expected, which is midtable form, which is also why we as a club and not just Gerrard as a manager, need new players, it would be the same whoever was in charge.

[sne]

Didn't think I had to specify in football and not just the PL.

Getting the luxury of getting to build "your team" is extremely rare, in the PL or anywhere else. You work with what you have and Gerrard should too. Can't see him being afforded to have a 38 player turnover or whatever it was he had in Scotland here.

[nick76]

15 minutes ago, useless said:

There are not loads of managers that are doing much more with less than Gerrard, that's just not true, teams that have done better than us since he was appointed are the top six which you would expect, West Ham and Wolves which you'd also expect, Brentford, but they've only taken one more point and have played two more games, and Newcastle who have been doing better than most teams never mind us.

We're eleventh in the form guide since he was appointed, Brentford just above played two more games, and West Ham nineth, two more points, will have also played two more games than us after they've played away to Chelsea today.

Overall with Gerrard we've been doing about as well as would be expected, which is midtable form, which is also why we as a club and not just Gerrard as a manager, need new players, it would be the same whoever was in charge.

Shame that form table only looks good including the initial managerial bounce.  Take that out and we have 15 points from the last 15 league games plus knocked out the cup and we are further down the form table.

[useless]

Gerrard won't be rebuilding the whole team, not sure why people keeping using the word 'rebuild', in the summer we will probably sign four or five new players, which is probably about the average for Premier League clubs, as need new signings just to stand still never mind to try and get better. No idea why people are using the idea of us signing new players in the summer as a negative against Gerrard, again it would be the same whoever was manager, because our current squad is midtable at best, and nowhere near good enough to get us to where we want to go, that we're going to try and strengthen is a good thing.

There are things to doubt about Gerrard, our recent form before yesterday being one of them, but him wanting strengthen the team isn't one of them.

[WallisFrizz]

5 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Shame that form table only looks good including the initial managerial bounce.  Take that out and we have 15 points from the last 15 league games plus knocked out the cup and we are further down the form table.

But why should we take it out? It happened, they were real well earned points. Not every manager gets the bounce effect. We didn’t allow Duncan Ferguson or Jesse Marsch theirs.

[VillaFaninLondon]

1 minute ago, useless said:

Gerrard won't be rebuilding the whole team, not sure why people keeping using the word 'rebuild', in the summer we will probably sign four or five new players, which is probably about the average for Premier League clubs, as need new signings just to stand still never mind to try and get better. No idea why people are using the idea of us signing new players in the summer as a negative against Gerrard, again it would be the same whoever was manager, because our current squad is midtable at best, and nowhere near good enough to get us to where we want to go, that we're going to try and strengthen is a good thing.

There are things to doubt about Gerrard, our recent form before yesterday being one of them, but him wanting strengthen the team isn't one of them.

Probably because he was allowed to strengthen in January and we've since gone backwards rather than progressed.

 

Everyone wants to improve this team and knows it needs improving, but the fear is we give Gerrard huge funds and he takes us nowhere.

[sne]

7 minutes ago, useless said:

Gerrard won't be rebuilding the whole team, not sure why people keeping using the word 'rebuild', in the summer we will probably sign four or five new players, which is probably about the average for Premier League clubs, as need new signings just to stand still never mind to try and get better. No idea why people are using the idea of us signing new players in the summer as a negative against Gerrard, again it would be the same whoever was manager, because our current squad is midtable at best, and nowhere near good enough to get us to where we want to go, that we're going to try and strengthen is a good thing.

There are things to doubt about Gerrard, our recent form before yesterday being one of them, but him wanting strengthen the team isn't one of them.

For me it's because people are using the term "his team".

How many signings does it take to be his team? He's had 4. Is it 2 more, 5, 10, 28? 

This squad he has now is his team. The squad he has next week will also be his team. And if he's here this time next year that will also be his team. He works for Aston Villa.

Edited April 24, 2022 by sne

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, Keyblade said:

One thing that doesn't sit right with me is the notion that this isn't "his team". I was under the impression that we moved to a more "continental" model as it were, as a club. In that we have a model for the profile of player that we bring to the club, to fit a certain template or style of play. The idea being that no one staff member is irreplaceable. We can sack the head coach and bring in another to pick up where he left off and continue in the same vein. Think Brentford for example. Smith leaves, Frank replaces him and the club doesn't miss a beat.

But apparently now, after just the first managerial change under this new model, we need a huge squad clear out/overhaul and to spend a bunch of money to suit the manager and his style, when we've been led to believe it's supposed to be the other way around. This is the very thing that led to our downfall under Lerner, and what buried teams like Sunderland and why Everton currently look like they're headed the same way. 

Again, this isn't a knock on Gerrard at all, as I know people are super defensive over the guy for some reason. This is me questioning our ownership/higher ups, for the first time in 3 years really. 

Excellent post and IMO further proof at how desperate Purslow was to get Gerrard. 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by DCJonah

[WallisFrizz]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Excellent post and IMO further proof at how desperate Purslow was to get Gerrard. 

 

It was a good post but Brentford isn’t probably the best example as Smith left them in a good place I think and Frank was his assistant so no ship to steady as such. Most managerial replacements aren’t so smooth.

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said:

But why should we take it out? It happened, they were real well earned points. Not every manager gets the bounce effect. We didn’t allow Duncan Ferguson or Jesse Marsch theirs.

Because it inflates current form just like when people argued about Smiths 2021 form yet you could argue Smith got 55 points in 20/21 season so why isn’t that included.  Then Smith only got sacked in 11 games of the new season after a fabulous 20/21 seasons points haul.  But that doesn’t hold much water does it because he got judged on the poor form run just like Gerrard should on the last 15 games.  You can always include the good run before the poor form but that inflates the poor current run. In the last 15 games he has 15 points.

[useless]

Being his team is not just about new signings, it's also about him having a full pre season with them. The phrase it's 'not his team' is often used when talking about new managers at clubs, that doesn't mean to say that people expect that new manager to sign an whole squad or team before it becomes 'his team'.

If we imagine a different scenario where we appointed a different manager and that manager had done incredibly well up until now, people would still be using the phrase 'it's not his team', it's just another way of saying that a manager hasn't been able to bring in his own players yet, and again doesn't mean that he has to rebuild the whole squad or even the starting eleven to become 'his team'.

In the summer I'm guessing we sign four or five new players, hopefully pretty good ones too, improvements on what we already have, in addition Gerrard will have had a pre season, as well as whatever he might hae learned from this season, so will be expected to do much better, there will be no excuses.

Edited April 24, 2022 by useless

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Because it inflates current form just like when people argued about Smiths 2021 form yet you could argue Smith got 55 points in 20/21 season so why isn’t that included.  Then Smith only got sacked in 11 games of the new season after a fabulous 20/21 seasons points haul.  But that doesn’t hold much water does it because he got judged on the poor form run just like Gerrard should on the last 15 games.  You can always include the good run before the poor form but that inflates the poor current run. In the last 15 games he has 15 points.

Bingo. 

 

[WallisFrizz]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Because it inflates current form just like when people argued about Smiths 2021 form yet you could argue Smith got 55 points in 20/21 season so why isn’t that included.  Then Smith only got sacked in 11 games of the new season after a fabulous 20/21 seasons points haul.  But that doesn’t hold much water does it because he got judged on the poor form run just like Gerrard should on the last 15 games.  You can always include the good run before the poor form but that inflates the poor current run. In the last 15 games he has 15 points.

Surely the fairest thing is to look at the whole picture not just the part of the picture you want to make your argument. He started well, then we slumped, then hit some form again, then slumped again. Hopefully we’ll win a couple more. So we’re basically an inconsistent mid table team. We know this. He needs to do better but taking out the good run to make him/us appear worse isn’t right either. Like I said, a new manager bounce doesn’t automatically happen to everyone. It shouldn’t be discounted.

[Keyblade]

It's not even like we're failing to pick up points, but are still playing and performing well, like we were at the start of the season. Like yesterday for example. We could have played that game until Monday and we probably wouldn't have scored. There's really not much to latch onto at the moment. No signs. It kind of sucks. Maybe I've gotten used to the consistent hope and optimism for the past 3 years. Feels weird to be apathetic about Villa.

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

It's not even like we're failing to pick up points, but are still playing and performing well, like we were at the start of the season. Like yesterday for example. We could have played that game until Monday and we probably wouldn't have scored. There's really not much to latch onto at the moment. No signs. It kind of sucks. Maybe I've gotten used to the consistent hope and optimism for the past 3 years. Feels weird to be apathetic about Villa.

I'm very similar. 

I can't see what's going to change in the summer in order for us to be a comfortable top half team next season. 

Maybe we sign 3 or 4 player and they all hit the ground running. But at the moment it's mainly hope that things are going to get better rather than seeing improvements and things to build on. 

 

[DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth]

Serious concerns about this man’s ability to grow us as a club. 

[leighavfc]

6 hours ago, Zatman said:

since the new manager bounce wore off

style of football - negative and crap

results - meh

media soundbites - top quality except actually following through with it

competition for places - another soundbite but yes all positions are open unless McGinn and Watkins

truth is he did nothing to deserve the job and is showing it. How would people feel if we had hired Ange Postecoglu for example and he is an actual manager

I loved him as a player and want him to do well but I just don't see any improvement at this moment in time. The "he needs his own players" is an excuse of the highest order for me. Yes there is an element of that but he knew which players this squad had before he signed. I have no problem with him trying to play his way with his philosophy to start with but clearly it doesn't work with this squad, a good coach sees that and adapts his style at least until he can get the players to make his system work. Gerrard just tells the players they are s**t and half of them won't be here next season... Brilliant well done Stevie, that solves it then! You have to coach your team and mould it all together in between signing players to complement it all, this is where in my opinion it's going wrong. Everybody moans and laughs at chequebook managers and I suspect we have another one here, he spent a lot in Scotland too by their standards.

I am guessing Strachan, McLeish, Lennon and the likes were all on the shortlist too as they achieved the same if not more in Scotland....

He will be here until at least December and I guess that's only fair in giving him a chance and time to put it all together... It really doesn't look too clever at the moment though and Im fairly sure this time next year he will be long gone from Villa park.

More than happy to be proven wrong of course... And I hope he does as it means we will be doing better but all the arguments I see for him like mentality of players etc etc are things that cannot be actually proven. Let's not forget most of these players amassed 55 points last season regardless of how bad 2021 was... The change was needed but not for a rookie manager learning on the job in my opinion.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by leighavfc

[useless]

A draw away to Leicester is a very good result, they've only lost four games at home all season, we just needed something to end the run of defeats, we've done that so can go into the Norwich and Burnley games on a postive note. Not sure how yesterday can be turned into a negative, we did what we needed to do to get a result.

Also we have a lot more hope now than we've had in the last three seasons, and that's not a criticism of Smith, it's actually a complement to him, as he played a massive role in getting us to this position, this season been a disappointment, but there have been mitigating factors, losing Grealish when we did, the start we had to the season, injuries, up and down form with Gerrard, but even after all that we could still finish midtable, which would be good enough as this season was always going to be about consolidating our midtable status, we were never going to go from being a relegated threatened team, to a midtable team, and then to a team challenging for Europe in three seasons.

Don't really understand all this talk of being apathetic, it's what you'd expect from spoilt Man City fans after being so used to winning that it stops meaning anything to them, we haven't even had any success yet.

[tomav84]

13 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

It's not even like we're failing to pick up points, but are still playing and performing well, like we were at the start of the season. Like yesterday for example. We could have played that game until Monday and we probably wouldn't have scored. There's really not much to latch onto at the moment. No signs. It kind of sucks. Maybe I've gotten used to the consistent hope and optimism for the past 3 years. Feels weird to be apathetic about Villa.

yesterday was a strange game to be fair and one that had we not lost the last 4 we'd have approached differently. we were playing for 0-0 in the last 5 mins because we didn't want another 5 losses in a row.

i fundamentally disagree with nothing to latch on to at the moment. yesterday showed clear improvement IMO.