Tammy Abraham

[YouUnastanFren]

27 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

so was jack

Off topic but was he? From my memory he was the best player on the pitch like usual.

He forced Odoi into the sending off and he got Fredericks to commit a red card offence that was inexplicably missed.

Nearly scored as well.

[est1874]

Tammy is a Chelsea fan, they mean to him what Villa means to Jack. No matter how hard done by he feels under Tuchel's reign, he's not leaving them to play second fiddle to a better striker at another club. He'll join whoever can afford him who will guarantee him a starting berth in Gameweek 1.

i.e. someone like West Ham, Crystal Palace, Wolves (assuming Jimenez has a slow start).

[John]

3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Was a blessing in disguise that he chose Chelsea over us imo.

We wouldn't end up with Watkins in an alternative universe who is a much better player.

That is one way of looking at it I guess.

I would suggest that he was willing to give it one more try at the club that had been loaning him out for fun, on the basis that Frank had told him he would have a fresh start and be able to fight for a starting place (as they couldn't then buy a striker). He did that scored the goals for Chelsea that got him games for England and then it all turned pear shaped. Frank spent as soon as he was able, got the sack, the new boss froze him out and he lost his place in both the Chelsea and England squads. 

I think it was a difficult decision for Tammy to go back to Chelsea. He had been welcomed here, was a fans favourite and had his manager's full backing. With hindsight, I'm sure he regrets showing loyalty to a club, who have shown him none in return. I'm sure he would love to come back here and I for one would not say no to his return. What options up front we would then have and who could say no to more moments like these?

  

[mikeyjavfc]

No way will he be coming to villa to be second string to Watkins and we won’t be spunking £40m on a second string option anyway. Non starter from both sides.
 

West Ham would be stupid not to fork out for Tammy in my view. I think he’d do well for them and suit their system. He needs the move as well personally to keep his career moving forward.

[PussEKatt]

If he wanted to fight for his place at chelski,then why wouldent he want to come back here and fight for his place here ?! 

[TRO]

I don't quite understand the thinking here.....why would we buy a striker, inferior to Ollie, to JUST create cover.

We need strikers to compete and the one that loses out, provides the cover, thats what competitive driven teams do.

We are building a team to compete at the top, the players have to improve their game to stay in contention for the shirt.

bringing players in for just cover, will have us fixed in midtable.....players have to be driven, not coasting.

There will be players along the way who have become fan favourites, to reach the top, there will be casualties.....thats what happens in ambitious teams.

[MotoMkali]

6 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

didn't we spend almost 40 million (with add ons) on Buendia who can deputise for Jack?

I am not sure why there is such anxiety about us signing Tammy, if Dean and co want him then they will know when, where/how to play him.

Some of the best Villa teams i have seen in my life time have had two strikers in the starting eleven. People crapping the bad over us playing different formations is weird also.

at the moment i am not convinced it is actually going to happen, but would love it if it did.

Because Buendia can play in 3 maybe 4 positions (B2B CM + LW + RW+ CAM) Tammy can only play in one same with Watkins. I would also say neither have the close control or ball skills to act as wingers/inside forwards. So Tammy would be an awful signing for the quoted prices. 

[Rightdm00]

3 hours ago, KMitch said:

Uh...  When was this?  This is some revisionist history here...  

Not going to dig up the article for a half assed transfer rumor but it was understood Tammy chose to go fight for his place with Chelsea after his loan ended. 

That's his right and he shouldn't be judged either way for it.  I just take issue with part of our fan base clammering for a Tammy return and to make it happen are willing to shuttle Watkins out wide. You wonder why footballers have so little loyalty. 

Watkins is a striker, that's how he see himself and that's how the management team sees him as well. If you are going to force him out of his preferred position at least have the decency to make sure the addition is better than him and not some Chelsea reject unwilling to fight for position at his current club. Just reeks of disrespect, especially after the season he just delivered. 

[DaveAV1]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I don't quite understand the thinking here.....why would we buy a striker, inferior to Ollie, to JUST create cover.

We need strikers to compete and the one that loses out, provides the cover, thats what competitive driven teams do.

We are building a team to compete at the top, the players have to improve their game to stay in contention for the shirt.

bringing players in for just cover, will have us fixed in midtable.....players have to be driven, not coasting.

There will be players along the way who have become fan favourites, to reach the top, there will be casualties.....thats what happens in ambitious teams.

Absolutely right. There should be no back up players, just alternatives and competition for places. Man City regularly change half a dozen players from one PL game to the next. If the aim is to compete at the top then that’s the sort of approach we should be taking. 

Before anyone says that we’re not at Man City’s level, I’d agree but you don’t get to their level by adopting the wrong approach. Having lots of top players competing for places all over the pitch, is the type of problem that managers like. Sure it can be a major headache but not one that many managers would swap with trying to find a replacement striker in January type headache. 

[DaveAV1]

3 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Watkins is a striker, that's how he see himself and that's how the management team sees him as well

He was a striker last the last couple of years but before that he was a very good wide player previously.  How do you know which he preferred?
 

I think we’re aiming for a less traditional and rigid approach to our forward play. As an intelligent footballer I’m sure that Ollie is well suited to both understanding and adapting to the teams needs. I don’t for a minute believe this will have a detrimental effect on him or the team. Quite the opposite in fact. 

[The Fun Factory]

4 hours ago, est1874 said:

Tammy is a Chelsea fan, they mean to him what Villa means to Jack. No matter how hard done by he feels under Tuchel's reign, he's not leaving them to play second fiddle to a better striker at another club. He'll join whoever can afford him who will guarantee him a starting berth in Gameweek 1.

i.e. someone like West Ham, Crystal Palace, Wolves (assuming Jimenez has a slow start).

At present its either second fiddle or playing in the reserves. He has no future at Chelsea unless they change manager again which does happen quite a lot down kings road.

[Rightdm00]

Just now, DaveAV1 said:

He was a striker last the last couple of years but before that he was a very good wide player previously.  How do you know which he preferred?
 

I think we’re aiming for a less traditional and rigid approach to our forward play. As an intelligent footballer I’m sure that Ollie is well suited to both understanding and adapting to the teams needs. I don’t for a minute believe this will have a detrimental effect on him or the team. Quite the opposite in fact. 

Ollie was a decent to above average Championship winger. HE didn't earn his move to the PL til he moved to striker.  Why would we move him back out wide for a replacement that isn't even clearly better than him. 

Definitely don't want to spend £40 million on a non-versatile backup who can only play one position. Tammy had his chance and blew it. We are on to bigger and better things now.

[est1874]

4 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

At present its either second fiddle or playing in the reserves. He has no future at Chelsea unless they change manager again which does happen quite a lot down kings road.

It's not though is it? You've presented a binary scenario where it's us or Chelsea. He can go elsewhere and be the first choice striker, as discussed. So the question is why would he choose a club with an England international who's just had an excellent season ahead of him in the pecking order

[The Fun Factory]

Just now, est1874 said:

It's not though is it? You've presented a binary scenario where it's us or Chelsea. He can go elsewhere and be the first choice striker, as discussed. So the question is why would he choose a club with an England international who's just had an excellent season ahead of him in the pecking order

Villa

Then-

Other clubs

[brummybloke]

10 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Ollie was a decent to above average Championship winger. HE didn't earn his move to the PL til he moved to striker.  Why would we move him back out wide for a replacement that isn't even clearly better than him. 

Definitely don't want to spend £40 million on a non-versatile backup who can only play one position. Tammy had his chance and blew it. We are on to bigger and better things now.

The only people saying watkins would be forced out wide are the people saying they don't want tammy.

Ignoring the several suggestions that watkins could in fact play anywhere across the front 4 with tammy in the same side.

Heaven forbid we get a good 2nd striker and possibly adapt to play more than one formation.

[YouUnastanFren]

To me it looks like Abraham is a perfect fit for Brighton. They create loads of chances that their crappy strikers can't finish, his entire game revolves around finishing chances that other people create and he's very good at it.

It is for that reason that I hope he doesn't sign for them and signs for someone who create **** all instead. Like Palace.

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Ollie was a decent to above average Championship winger. HE didn't earn his move to the PL til he moved to striker.  Why would we move him back out wide for a replacement that isn't even clearly better than him. 

Definitely don't want to spend £40 million on a non-versatile backup who can only play one position. Tammy had his chance and blew it. We are on to bigger and better things now.

Tammy had his chance and blew it? I'm not sure what that means in your opinion.  He went back to his boyhood club because he could see under Lampard he would get game time to express himself.  Cant argue with him doing that especially as we were a newly promoted team that was likely to struggle as we did.

Also are we onto bigger and better things than Tammy, no big name striker would come to us.  His stats and experience for a 23 year old are definitely more than enough for us.  If you listen to the so called experts over the last (almost) week is that Tammy would be looking for bigger club than Villa to go to yet Villa fans are turning their nose up at him.  Disappointing when you listen to talk shows or social media and they say Tammy will be looking for bigger than us.  Even on TalkShite yesterday at lunch Simon Jordan said no disrespect to Villa but tammy will be looking for a bigger club than us.

As for non-versatile.  I keep seeing this being brought up but how often do clubs buy players intending them to play in multiple positions.  Most players who go to clubs mostly play in one position, the manager has an idea of where he wants to play him 99% of the time.  Even our players  I can only think of Jack really playing two major different positions but even then he's played mostly LW.  

Martinez - obviously only GK

Defence - most only one position - only Konsa has played CB and RB, and even then people whinged when he was played there

Centre midfield - almost all of them have basically played just midfield whether DCM or MF, maybe CAM but essentially just midfield.

Jack - has played mostly LW but has played CAM

Traore - I think has only played RW for us.

Ollie - I think 99% of time has played as striker

El Ghazi and Trez - Looks from the stats that El Ghazi has only really played LW but has been classed as striker for a few minutes.  Trez from the stats looks a bit varied.

Even looking at a lot of other teams most players play in one position for that team 99% of the time...always good to have versatility but when it's not really used is it such a big deal.  Those that are well known for being versatile generally are not key players in those teams.

So I'm not sure where this obsession is for a load of versatility when it generally isnt used.

People have also got to stop thinking we are trying to say Tammy is better than Ollie.  We are trying to build competition and options for many reasons of two similar players with different attributes to strengthen our squad.  Some on here think 40m is too much for Tammy with our budget, some dont think we need a striker, one or two dont think Tammy is very good.  I think he's the right price, at the right time, in (in my opinion) the second priority we currently have after CAM purchase and he's the right player.

 

[nick76]

22 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

The only people saying watkins would be forced out wide are the people saying they don't want tammy.

Ignoring the several suggestions that watkins could in fact play anywhere across the front 4 with tammy in the same side.

Heaven forbid we get a good 2nd striker and possibly adapt to play more than one formation.

 

and even the suggestion that we are saying that buying him in case Ollie has a massive injury is the only reason, completely ignoring all the other reasons bringing in Tammy would bring.

 

[nick76]

25 minutes ago, YouUnastanFren said:

To me it looks like Abraham is a perfect fit for Brighton. They create loads of chances that their crappy strikers can't finish, his entire game revolves around finishing chances that other people create and he's very good at it.

It is for that reason that I hope he doesn't sign for them and signs for someone who create **** all instead. Like Palace.

but Palace have Benteke, Ayew and Mateta (and never mind Wickham).  Not sure they will have the money to add another striker to that lot

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, brummybloke said:

The only people saying watkins would be forced out wide are the people saying they don't want tammy.

Ignoring the several suggestions that watkins could in fact play anywhere across the front 4 with tammy in the same side.

Heaven forbid we get a good 2nd striker and possibly adapt to play more than one formation.

That would be horrendous. Watkins is only a striker. He isn't skillful enough to play elsewhere. His pace, strength and straight line dribbling are fine against cbs but against most fullbacks he doesn't have the pace advantage and they will be able to tackle him fairly easily.