Tammy Abraham

[nick76]

22 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

That would be horrendous. Watkins is only a striker. He isn't skillful enough to play elsewhere. His pace, strength and straight line dribbling are fine against cbs but against most fullbacks he doesn't have the pace advantage and they will be able to tackle him fairly easily. 

I think you are completely missing brummybloke’s point but anywhere…

I did look at where Ollie plays heat map wise and got this first half of the season analysis when we were at our peak where he averaged played which was left side and not centrally.  Not that I’m advocating putting him left but he does drift over there most of the time.  Again I want Ollie as a striker

https://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/player-analysis-ollie-watkins/

Quote

Leveraging his experience at winger, Watkins is quite used to occupying the wider areas of the pitch. In the heat map below, we can see where he likes to position himself throughout a game. The graphic shows us that he most often occupies the left side of the field, particularly in the left half-space and flank.

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by nick76

[MotoMkali]

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I think you are completely missing brummybloke’s point but anywhere…

I did look at where Ollie plays heat map wise and got this first half of the season analysis when we were at our peak where he averaged played which was left side and not centrally.  Not that I’m advocating putting him left but he does drift over there most of the time.  Again I want Ollie as a striker

https://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/player-analysis-ollie-watkins/

 

Yeah he drifts sure. Because he wants to link up with Grealish, Barkley and Targett who all drifted left or stayed left. We attacked down the left over 50% of the time for large portions of the season. We had a completely unbalanced attack and it allowed teams to double up defensively down the left side and be more attacking through the middle and outside against us. Which we saw post Covid break. 

[nick76]

Just now, MotoMkali said:

Yeah he drifts sure. Because he wants to link up with Grealish, Barkley and Targett who all drifted left or stayed left. We attacked down the left over 50% of the time for large portions of the season. We had a completely unbalanced attack and it allowed teams to double up defensively down the left side and be more attacking through the middle and outside against us. Which we saw post Covid break. 

My concern is with Ollie drifting out wide a lot last season we had nobody in the box then.  If we can find a way to play Ollie and Tammy it would be great when we sign him as you say Tammy with stay centrally to take those chances.

[MotoMkali]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

My concern is with Ollie drifting out wide a lot last season we had nobody in the box then.  If we can find a way to play Ollie and Tammy it would be great when we sign him as you say Tammy with stay centrally to take those chances.

We have no way. The only way to get Watkins to stay central is Jack to play through the middle so he can influence play on both sides of the pitch and it makes our attack far more balanced. Which is why we have a better record with him in the centre. 

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

We have no way. The only way to get Watkins to stay central is Jack to play through the middle so he can influence play on both sides of the pitch and it makes our attack far more balanced. Which is why we have a better record with him in the centre. 

But that’s rubbish which has been debunked before to you.  I’m not going to argue with you on this again.  You were proved wrong about Jack on this positioning thing.  You won’t accept it, which is your choice but I’m not going to debate or talk about it again.  This is about Tammy.

Watkins likes to drift left.  When Jack does play centrally Jack likes to drift left.  Watkins is likely to continue drifting left whether Jack is left or centrally being played.

Edited July 1, 2021 by nick76

[MotoMkali]

Just now, nick76 said:

But that’s rubbish which has been debunked before to you.  I’m not going to argue with you on this again.  You were proved wrong about Jack on this positioning thing.  You won’t accept it, which is your choice but I’m not going to debate or talk about it again.  This is about Tammy.

No it hasn't we have a superior record with Jack in the centre. The only claim that might have some weight is Jack scoring fewer goals in the centre but even then I find that spurious because Jack goes on goal scoring streaks. Where he scores 3 or 4 goals in a 7 or 8 game period he just hasn't had one at CAM because he hasn't play that many games there.

[Villaphan04]

another thing to mention if we push Watkins out wide is that he will have a much harder time in getting into the England squad there vs at striker which might also play into his mind. 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, Villaphan04 said:

another thing to mention if we push Watkins out wide is that he will have a much harder time in getting into the England squad there vs at striker which might also play into his mind. 

I quote @brummybloke

Quote

The only people saying watkins would be forced out wide are the people saying they don't want tammy.

Ignoring the several suggestions that watkins could in fact play anywhere across the front 4 with tammy in the same side.

Heaven forbid we get a good 2nd striker and possibly adapt to play more than one formation.

 

[MaVilla]

23 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I think you are completely missing brummybloke’s point but anywhere…

I did look at where Ollie plays heat map wise and got this first half of the season analysis when we were at our peak where he averaged played which was left side and not centrally.  Not that I’m advocating putting him left but he does drift over there most of the time.  Again I want Ollie as a striker

https://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/player-analysis-ollie-watkins/

 

[PieFacE]

2 hours ago, YouUnastanFren said:

To me it looks like Abraham is a perfect fit for Brighton. They create loads of chances that their crappy strikers can't finish, his entire game revolves around finishing chances that other people create and he's very good at it.

It is for that reason that I hope he doesn't sign for them and signs for someone who create **** all instead. Like Palace.

Brighton is a very good shout. 

[Rightdm00]

39 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Tammy had his chance and blew it? I'm not sure what that means in your opinion.  He went back to his boyhood club because he could see under Lampard he would get game time to express himself.  Cant argue with him doing that especially as we were a newly promoted team that was likely to struggle as we did.

Also are we onto bigger and better things than Tammy, no big name striker would come to us.  His stats and experience for a 23 year old are definitely more than enough for us.  If you listen to the so called experts over the last (almost) week is that Tammy would be looking for bigger club than Villa to go to yet Villa fans are turning their nose up at him.  Disappointing when you listen to talk shows or social media and they say Tammy will be looking for bigger than us.  Even on TalkShite yesterday at lunch Simon Jordan said no disrespect to Villa but tammy will be looking for a bigger club than us.

As for non-versatile.  I keep seeing this being brought up but how often do clubs buy players intending them to play in multiple positions.  Most players who go to clubs mostly play in one position, the manager has an idea of where he wants to play him 99% of the time.  Even our players  I can only think of Jack really playing two major different positions but even then he's played mostly LW.  

Martinez - obviously only GK

Defence - most only one position - only Konsa has played CB and RB, and even then people whinged when he was played there

Centre midfield - almost all of them have basically played just midfield whether DCM or MF, maybe CAM but essentially just midfield.

Jack - has played mostly LW but has played CAM

Traore - I think has only played RW for us.

Ollie - I think 99% of time has played as striker

El Ghazi and Trez - Looks from the stats that El Ghazi has only really played LW but has been classed as striker for a few minutes.  Trez from the stats looks a bit varied.

Even looking at a lot of other teams most players play in one position for that team 99% of the time...always good to have versatility but when it's not really used is it such a big deal.  Those that are well known for being versatile generally are not key players in those teams.

So I'm not sure where this obsession is for a load of versatility when it generally isnt used.

People have also got to stop thinking we are trying to say Tammy is better than Ollie.  We are trying to build competition and options for many reasons of two similar players with different attributes to strengthen our squad.  Some on here think 40m is too much for Tammy with our budget, some dont think we need a striker, one or two dont think Tammy is very good.  I think he's the right price, at the right time, in (in my opinion) the second priority we currently have after CAM purchase and he's the right player.

 

We went and found a better striker than Tammy in the Championship and at a cheaper price. So yes, I fully believe we have moved on.

Our first try to replace Tammy from our promotion winning team (Wesley) was sub-optimal. I think most on here are in agreement on that. Our second attempt (Ollie) though, found the perfect fit for our team. The pressing, hold up play, toughness, attitude, strike rate... He is pretty much the perfect striker for our setup. 

I also have full faith our recruitment team can do it again when needed as well. No need to pay the scum 6 their over inflated asking price for players they don't even want, Tuanzebe included. 

I love how Villa have gone about their business since our promotion. If you want to join the Villa revolution then hop on. If you perform well we will reward you with a new contract. If you don't want to then fine but we will just go find someone better. Same happened with Rashica. Turned us down so we went found twice the player in Buendia. Long may it continue. 

Finally, I'll say this. NWSE has stated our ambition is to eventually unseat one of the scum 6 and challenge for Europe.  Enriching Chelsea by over paying for a striker on their bomb squad is not going to further that main ambition. 

[AvfcRigo82]

2 hours ago, YouUnastanFren said:

To me it looks like Abraham is a perfect fit for Brighton. They create loads of chances that their crappy strikers can't finish, his entire game revolves around finishing chances that other people create and he's very good at it.

I agree and I think Tammy is too good for a club like Brighton.

[Villaphan04]

19 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I quote @brummybloke

 

so we go out and spend 40m on Tammy... What happens with Watkins? Playing a 4-4-2 / 4-2-2-2 isn't something that Dean's shown he want's to do. He likes the 'inverted winger' coming off the edge on their favored side. 

Tammy is a pure striker which to me means that if we drop 40m on him, he needs to be starting and when we already have Watkins as our recognized striker doesn't make too much sense for me. BUT if we can get him cheaper (like a loan w/an option or around 20/25m -- which i don't think would happen) then I would be for it. 

 

Again, I'm not against the possible signing of him, but he doesn't make sense to be our record signing at 40 million for us when he wouldn't be a guaranteed starter. 

 

[sir_gary_cahill]

I’d love him back, I’m a massive fan of his. For me, he’s one of the best young strikers in Europe. Chelsea would be silly to let him go in my opinion. He has an uncanny knack of getting in to goalscoring positions. Yes, he does miss quite a lot of chances but name me a striker that doesn’t. He’s been at Villa before on loan, he knows what it’s about here

[Phil Silvers]

3 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

I’d love him back, I’m a massive fan of his. For me, he’s one of the best young strikers in Europe. Chelsea would be silly to let him go in my opinion. He has an uncanny knack of getting in to goalscoring positions. Yes, he does miss quite a lot of chances but name me a striker that doesn’t. He’s been at Villa before on loan, he knows what it’s about here

What about looks wise SGC? Is he good looking enough to get in our team?

[Xela]

wE cAn'T hAvE tWo gOOD sTriKeRs aT tHe cLuB

 

[sir_gary_cahill]

13 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

What about looks wise SGC? Is he good looking enough to get in our team?

He’s quite a good looking lad but it’s hard to compete with Watkins in that department in my opinion. Do you think Abraham is good looking enough to get in our team?

[Phil Silvers]

10 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

He’s quite a good looking lad but it’s hard to compete with Watkins in that department in my opinion. Do you think Abraham is good looking enough to get in our team?

No

[brummybloke]

3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

That would be horrendous. Watkins is only a striker. He isn't skillful enough to play elsewhere. His pace, strength and straight line dribbling are fine against cbs but against most fullbacks he doesn't have the pace advantage and they will be able to tackle him fairly easily. 

See I've watched him for several seasons from Exeter to Brentford to villa and I wouldn't limit him to 'only a striker' at all. He has far more to his game than just playing the furthest forwards. I could quite easily see him as the number 10 if someone like tammy came in. His work rate, battling, pressing and ability to hold the ball and score is what most 10's are bought for.

[AvfcRigo82]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

wE cAn'T hAvE tWo gOOD sTriKeRs aT tHe cLuB

 

Exactly.

I don't understand this mentality from some.