Tammy Abraham

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Actually I'm sorry for calli g you a clown. I should have clarified further in my initial comment. 

Let’s just agree to disagree on Tammy, like we’ve done for many topics related to Villa.  We both love Villa but have very different views on many of the topics.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Tammy is a good footballer and friends with Grealish.

Makes perfect sense!

Watkins, Abraham, Wesley, Davis, Barry.

Europe here we come, UTV.

[Dave-R]

30 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

 This is comparisons between other strikers and other strikers only. He is straight up awful for a striker at everything that isn't using his gangly limbs to get on the the ball. He scores goals yes and he is an above average finisher. But his impact on the game is not positive he is awful at almost everything. He is outclassed by pretty much every striker at pretty much everything. Hell **** Chris Wood is a better dribbler than he is. Chris Wood.

Scoring goals as a striker is only a small part of the game. You have to contribute in all phases of play which tammy doesn't and he doesn't help his teammates score which more than makes up for any actual ability he has when putting the ball in the net himself.

Dribbling, Passing, chance creation and Pressing are all key areas for every striker. Tammy Abraham basically has the same profile as chris wood and the vast majority of posters on here were against signing him and I believe you were as well.

The thing is when your midfield is Jorginho, Kovacic and Kante you will get a load of chances. Tammy had about 10 1 on 1s last season due to Jorginho long balls and he missed most of them. That's terrible. He has good positioning and whilst that is hard to teach. Contributing to the rest of play at a Premier league standard is harder. 

Edit:Removed an insult. Sorry. 

I'm pretty sure after reading this Moto that you missed watching him play for us in our promotion season.

Also did you miss watching him play for Chelsea as well.

I have to be honest alot of what you saying he doesn't do he actually does. It seems like your trying to make out Tammy doesn't do such things Inthe pitch and put people off the idea that he should be signed here because it's what's best for you and not the club in general.

Now I must be honest when I've seen Tammy play I have seen the bloke run around the pitch like Watkins does for a start.

I've seen him fulfil lots of defensive duties and even a few goaline clearances.

I have seen Tammy persist with so much heart that the normal player in his position would of given up when the chances to move on with the ball was so small and get something out of it like a goal.

Sure he misses alot but that could also boil down to having good positioning and the ability to try and make something out of nothing. One thing us Villa fans witnessed last season is games where our players go to far and drag the ball to much, if you can shoot before that then you at least are having attempts at the goal.

Tammy will without a doubt contribute in all areas he can if his role isn't being bought into play much.

I just feel that your trying to put people off the idea of signing him because there's another reason in your eyes why he shouldn't be here. Tammy is a good striker and even with limited time he has proven he can knock goals in. I wonder what you would think if the chiefs actually pulled the lad in and signed him?? He hasn't even signed for us and your throwing the hate out like he's done something personal against you, makes no sense unless the reason is that Watkins is being thrratened or that Wesley will be clearly shoved to the side.

He's not shit and you'd be mad to say so, he could do a decent job at Villa Moto.

[allani]

2 hours ago, Jas10 said:

But there is no way we are playing with two strikers unless one is shifted wide (please no), why does that keep being brought up? Dean has never done it and is not about to do it now.

Why does it mean we would play 4-4-2 or that one would need to be shifted wide?  Ross played in a very advance CAM role last season where he was asked to not (or at least didn't) do an awful lot of defending.  So I don't see how either Tammy or Ollie playing in that role is much different to something that Dean has done before.  I don't really see a big difference in a front 4 of Jack, Ross, Bertie and Ollie in terms of "approach" than Jack, Tammy, Emi and Ollie.  I think defensively the latter is stronger, will give our midfield / defenders more support and press harder.  Offensively I think the latter is in a different league - more goal threat, more threat from dead ball situations, more threat on the break, more threat when in possession against a team that has "parked the bus".  As I said yesterday I think it would be a combination that would support the main strengths of each of the four players, would give the opposition no end of trouble, would allow us to be very dynamic and fluid during a match and in relation to different game scenarios and gives us options as and when we have injuries, suspensions, etc.

Indeed I think with almost every other proposed option for an attacking recruit - the formation(s) / approach(es) other people are proposing are very, very similar to what I have suggested above.  I guess the main difference is that Tammy is tagged as more of a striker whereas other players are more (attacking) midfielders.  The problem I see with the latter is that if Ollie gets injured then there are not many attacking midfielders who could play Ollie's role anywhere close to his level and we'd lose a lot of our goal threat - whereas Tammy could fill that hole (with Bertie then fitting into the 4).  Obviously the flip side is that Tammy's link up play is not (at the moment) a big strength of his.  However, I am imagining that a lot of our creativity will come through Jack and Emi (and Bertie off the bench) so maybe that isn't such a big issue.  Also Smith has said before that Tammy is brilliant at training and adjusting quickly to new ideas.  I also don't think that it is a massive jump to say that some of the things that a CAM offers are already provided by Ollie in terms of his ridiculous work rate, running into channels, constant pressing of the opposition defenders / defensive midfielders.  I don't think that any of that would need to change with Tammy in the side.  Indeed it might even give Ollie the chance to catch his breath a bit.

[allani]

I don't know whether Tammy is the perfect / best option out there.  However, I think there are an awful lot of reasons as to why he could be an option and could / would be an excellent signing.  I guess one other thing to consider is that Tammy still has a pretty high reputation in the footballing world.  I think that he's the type of player (age, experience, signing from a super-6 club, etc) that other transfer targets would look at and think "hey Villa really are up to something" - particularly those that maybe play for a Super-6 club or have interest from a Super-6 club.  Them not being the first player to "jump ship" and sign up to the Villa vision might just be all the encouragement they need...

[MotoMkali]

16 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I'm pretty sure after reading this Moto that you missed watching him play for us in our promotion season.

Also did you miss watching him play for Chelsea as well.

I have to be honest alot of what you saying he doesn't do he actually does. It seems like your trying to make out Tammy doesn't do such things Inthe pitch and put people off the idea that he should be signed here because it's what's best for you and not the club in general.

Now I must be honest when I've seen Tammy play I have seen the bloke run around the pitch like Watkins does for a start.

I've seen him fulfil lots of defensive duties and even a few goaline clearances.

I have seen Tammy persist with so much heart that the normal player in his position would of given up when the chances to move on with the ball was so small and get something out of it like a goal.

Sure he misses alot but that could also boil down to having good positioning and the ability to try and make something out of nothing. One thing us Villa fans witnessed last season is games where our players go to far and drag the ball to much, if you can shoot before that then you at least are having attempts at the goal.

Tammy will without a doubt contribute in all areas he can if his role isn't being bought into play much.

I just feel that your trying to put people off the idea of signing him because there's another reason in your eyes why he shouldn't be here. Tammy is a good striker and even with limited time he has proven he can knock goals in. I wonder what you would think if the chiefs actually pulled the lad in and signed him?? He hasn't even signed for us and your throwing the hate out like he's done something personal against you, makes no sense unless the reason is that Watkins is being thrratened or that Wesley will be clearly shoved to the side.

He's not shit and you'd be mad to say so, he could do a decent job at Villa Moto.

Decent job not a good job.

I don't hate Tammy he just isn't good enough to justify the quoted price or the wages he wants.

As I said he is good at defending inside the box. Outside it the number of pressures he performs are subpar. Despite his stats being inflated by a number of substitute appearances where he would have more energy to spend. 

Goals aren't the be all and end all of a striker. They are important but build up play is just as important. Which is why we basically performed as well with him in the team as we did with Davis in the championship.

Tammy can't create anything out of nothing. He has scored 1 goal outside tree box in in his career and that was a 1 on 1. He can pounce on a loose ball sure but he isn't beating a man and scoring from range. Or beating a man and getting into the box. Or beating a man he's in the 2nd percentile for that. 

I watched Tammy in the championship. He missed chance after chance, he didn't create for others, his pressing was very spotty. A lot of the time he didn't. As evidenced by his subpar number of presses.

Signing him would be a terrible move for the club unless he was far below the quoted price. I'd consider it if it was below 20 million. But backup striker isn't a priority when we still need to upgrade our starting 11 with a new Winger (in my opinion others want a cam but whatever) and a defensive Midfielder as well. Before thinking about the fact we have 2 injury prone centre backs out of 3 players and our back up goalkeeper is also very injury prone. So we at least need to sign cover for them as well as the first team Signings.

[Jas10]

5 minutes ago, allani said:

Why does it mean we would play 4-4-2 or that one would need to be shifted wide?  Ross played in a very advance CAM role last season where he was asked to not (or at least didn't) do an awful lot of defending.  So I don't see how either Tammy or Ollie playing in that role is much different to something that Dean has done before.  I don't really see a big difference in a front 4 of Jack, Ross, Bertie and Ollie in terms of "approach" than Jack, Tammy, Emi and Ollie.  I think defensively the latter is stronger, will give our midfield / defenders more support and press harder.  Offensively I think the latter is in a different league - more goal threat, more threat from dead ball situations, more threat on the break, more threat when in possession against a team that has "parked the bus".  As I said yesterday I think it would be a combination that would support the main strengths of each of the four players, would give the opposition no end of trouble, would allow us to be very dynamic and fluid during a match and in relation to different game scenarios and gives us options as and when we have injuries, suspensions, etc.

Indeed I think with almost every other proposed option for an attacking recruit - the formation(s) / approach(es) other people are proposing are very, very similar to what I have suggested above.  I guess the main difference is that Tammy is tagged as more of a striker whereas other players are more (attacking) midfielders.  The problem I see with the latter is that if Ollie gets injured then there are not many attacking midfielders who could play Ollie's role anywhere close to his level and we'd lose a lot of our goal threat - whereas Tammy could fill that hole (with Bertie then fitting into the 4).  Obviously the flip side is that Tammy's link up play is not (at the moment) a big strength of his.  However, I am imagining that a lot of our creativity will come through Jack and Emi (and Bertie off the bench) so maybe that isn't such a big issue.  Also Smith has said before that Tammy is brilliant at training and adjusting quickly to new ideas.  I also don't think that it is a massive jump to say that some of the things that a CAM offers are already provided by Ollie in terms of his ridiculous work rate, running into channels, constant pressing of the opposition defenders / defensive midfielders.  I don't think that any of that would need to change with Tammy in the side.  Indeed it might even give Ollie the chance to catch his breath a bit.

Sorry, but I disagree. A proper, quality CAM requires superb technical skills and proficiency. At least from my POV.

Skill and composure on the ball, creativity and superb passing quality, ability to both create and score. Basically, your standout player, your playmaker. Your number 10, your trequartista

Jack and Buendia fit the bill for now & I do wonder how BT would do in that role.

A striker is not a CAM, I don’t like sticking players into unfamiliar or unsuited positions - I’d prefer them to play in their best position where they can excel the most and Ollie is our no.1 CF, he’s more than earned that right.

Sticking a player like Ollie at CAM is a move indicative of a “small side” imo, not one competing at the top end of the league.

I don’t agree with shifting Ollie away from his position for, imo, an inferior player. 

Personally, I am totally against the idea of moving Ollie out of position just to accommodate Tammy. No thank you, Ollie is better and has earned his status and role. I like Ollie a lot more than Tammy too, don’t see why people are so fond of him. Ollie deserves a lot more love.

He’s had an excellent first season and has shown so much promise and potential. He deserves to be our mainstay there for the foreseeable future, he offers so much to us and always contributes and works his socks off in every game. I can’t wait to see him being given better and more consistent service, I can honestly see him becoming on of the top scorers in the league. Don’t fix what isn’t broken.

[sidcow]

Oh good.  More Tammy squabbling. You've all made your positions clear.  Why just keep on with the circular arguments? 

If you absolutely have to you know you can respond to that other poster in the actual Tammy Abraham thread using the quote post function?

Totally sick and exhausted of this thread being polluted by these petty squabbles. 

[Digavilla]

Will be always grateful to Tammy for bringing us up from championship , but with our owners ambition to get into Europe , we have to overhaul the next few teams ahead of us the Leeds /West Ham / Arsenal / Spurs etc . 

Tammy’s needs lots of chance to score & miss loads. He’s doesn’t have good movements & not too suited for teams that played possession football, especially in tight area. His touches is too heavy & reaction slow , especially now opponents are limiting spaces by defending deep. The modern striker beer to be mobile / quick / skillful with good touches type the Salah/ Sterling / Aguero/ Mane etc type of striker etc . In the championship we had different type of players supporting the strikers besides Grealish , we now have better skill / intelligent attacking midfielders like Troare / Buendia etc that need more mobile strikers that can read a pass / with good movement / able to receive balls in tight spaces. Tammy’s is not that kind of striker, probably why he’s not in Chelsea’s plan.

I would prefer a more mobile / skillful type, like the Argentinian kid that would allow us to play more attractive style. Such players are very marketable in Asia/china/ Latin America and will earn new fans , which is what our owners want to make Villa a internationally brand. 

Like some said if Tammy  on loan with a option to buy than it’s ok , if not would prefer to see if Wesley ‘s can come good & try to go the more mobile/ skillful type of striker. 

[thabucks]

Tammy signing financially makes no sense , it will disrupt the wage structure for one. All for a player I do not believe has the quality required for the fee reported to be £40 million and offers virtually no resale value. Better options out there for less money IMO. 

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Oh good.  More Tammy squabbling. You've all made your positions clear.  Why just keep on with the circular arguments? 

If you absolutely have to you know you can respond to that other poster in the actual Tammy Abraham thread using the quote post function?

Totally sick and exhausted of this thread being polluted by these petty squabbles. 

Mate, this is the Tammy thread!

[sidcow]

Just now, nick76 said:

Mate, this is the Tammy thread!

[thabucks]

The thing that concerns me and  I think has not been considered with signing Tammy is the knock on effects it will have financially and the wage structure.

He would expect to be paid £100-£120k PW or £5/6 million PA. Watkins Is on £70k from what I’ve read online - he will expect at least parity. So that’s another £3.6 mill added to the wage bill. Mings will be next in line for a pay rise. Konsa. Then McGinn - that’s a least another £6million to the wage bill. Luiz will want a big increase in his £30k PW wages and poss parity with McGinn - another say £2 million added. Before you know it one payer can throw everything out of kilter in terms of wage structure and Tammy is not a player I believe is worth it. 
Im not saying that the wage structure shouldn’t be smashed for the right player  just that I don’t believe personally that Tammy is the player we should be targeting. Rough rudimentary math based on nothing but conjecture and opinion is the deal could cost us well over £60 million plus with the above factored in. 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by thabucks

[Dave-R]

1 hour ago, MotoMkali said:

Decent job not a good job.

I don't hate Tammy he just isn't good enough to justify the quoted price or the wages he wants.

As I said he is good at defending inside the box. Outside it the number of pressures he performs are subpar. Despite his stats being inflated by a number of substitute appearances where he would have more energy to spend. 

Goals aren't the be all and end all of a striker. They are important but build up play is just as important. Which is why we basically performed as well with him in the team as we did with Davis in the championship.

Tammy can't create anything out of nothing. He has scored 1 goal outside tree box in in his career and that was a 1 on 1. He can pounce on a loose ball sure but he isn't beating a man and scoring from range. Or beating a man and getting into the box. Or beating a man he's in the 2nd percentile for that. 

I watched Tammy in the championship. He missed chance after chance, he didn't create for others, his pressing was very spotty. A lot of the time he didn't. As evidenced by his subpar number of presses.

Signing him would be a terrible move for the club unless he was far below the quoted price. I'd consider it if it was below 20 million. But backup striker isn't a priority when we still need to upgrade our starting 11 with a new Winger (in my opinion others want a cam but whatever) and a defensive Midfielder as well. Before thinking about the fact we have 2 injury prone centre backs out of 3 players and our back up goalkeeper is also very injury prone. So we at least need to sign cover for them as well as the first team Signings.

But price becomes irrelevant doesn't it because one we are not paying it, two if he comes in and does what's expected of him then his price could be triple that figure and he'd be worth it. I don't know why people are so bothered about price round here.

I just think that if Smith and Lange decided to go get him in that they must without a doubt see a player in him and think they can make him better.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Dave-R

[Dave-R]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

Oh good.  More Tammy squabbling. You've all made your positions clear.  Why just keep on with the circular arguments? 

If you absolutely have to you know you can respond to that other poster in the actual Tammy Abraham thread using the quote post function?

Totally sick and exhausted of this thread being polluted by these petty squabbles. 

That's it now Sidcow, just for you we will carry on this for hundreds of pages just like the Milot thread.

Be prepared.

And we like circular arguements, in means it always gets back to one of us.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Dave-R

[Dave-R]

59 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Tammy signing financially makes no sense , it will disrupt the wage structure for one. All for a player I do not believe has the quality required for the fee reported to be £40 million and offers virtually no resale value. Better options out there for less money IMO. 

That's like saying Buendia has disrupted the wage structure all because we broke the record Fee.

You don't know Tammy has no resale value he's younger than Watkins still can develop. That is daft because we've bought Watkins for nearly that 40m price, around 10 less and the question marks around him at the time whether he could come in and do a job were there from many of you. Let's face it if you went back and looked at all the posts from you guys and how many were concerned, you would see how daft that was also. Then Watkins arrives and puts in some performances that make you go wow, it all soon puts that 30 or 40mill question to rest.

Then to say he doesn't have the quality required to be here, that is absolutely bonkers to be fair considering we don't know how he'd be under Smith, let alone how he'd come along. One thing you can say is that Tammy performed for us magically in the championship and he did exactly what was asked of him. The amount of Unknowns we've brought to this club since arriving back in the premier, then people are talking about how someone who did perform under us and with ease, made it looks so easy, then say Tammy hasn't the quality.

I find it strange thinking from some of you to be honest when you want an Unknown player in but then one that's performed under us is discarded like he's nothing and basically called shit.

[Dave-R]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

[NoelVilla]

Don't think it will happen and I am happy with that. A lot of better business that can be done,

[Dave-R]

11 minutes ago, NoelVilla said:

Don't think it will happen and I am happy with that. A lot of better business that can be done,

Like?

[nick76]

20 minutes ago, Dave-R said: