Dwight McNeil

[QldVilla]

46 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Top clubs employ data analysts to look at xGi and the like of potential transfer targets. One of us is missing the point

Thanks Nostradamus, your ability to point out the obvious continues to astound. 

[Kiwivillan]

6 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

Thanks Nostradamus, your ability to point out the obvious continues to astound. 

We invented the pavlova and flat white. Let's leave it at that and move on. 

[Laughable Chimp]

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

McNeil has a better chance creation per game than Saint Maximin and play in similarly shit sides. Him, Westwood and Lowton are Burnleys 3 modt creative players

He doesn't though. At least not in terms of minutes.

Mcneil averages 2.35 shot creating actions per 90 compared to ASM's  3.52 shot creating actions per 90.

1.47 key passes per 90 for Mcneil compared to ASM's 1.62 per 90.

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Laughable Chimp

[nick76]

35 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

I'm not freaking out. Again just being aware of our place in the food chain so to speak. We will have to show progress to keep our best players, Arsenal Everton and Leeds are no different. All I am saying is, that whoever club identify this summer needs ideally to come in and start instantly we don't really have time to develop a player that cost £40m to buy in the first place.

But players don’t leave mid table clubs very easily.  You have obvious examples like Maguire, Jota and VVD but if you look at the big teams the players they go after aren’t even from the PL because how much PL cost and how difficult deals are unless both sides want it.  Deals between big/rich teams teams and the elite teams don’t happen often and elite teams look elsewhere overseas because teams like Villa aren’t an easy treat.

[HanoiVillan]

I'm mostly agnostic about this link, but I think he's a better player than some are giving him credit for. He's fast, direct and has good close control of the ball. I think you can still criticise, and/or look to improve, a lack of end product.

But mostly what I think is that people should learn the lesson of Konsa, which is that players in his age bracket who have huge numbers of starts already under their belts, are often worth their weight in gold because so much of the mental side of the game that young players might have difficulties with should be much less challenging for them.

[tezzaleed]

I'm not surprised by the anti mcneill guff on twitter and to a lesser degree in here.  He's not a glamour player thats scored loads of goals and as he plays for Burnley his stats aren't great,  but if there really is a chance we could get him I would be genuinely excited.  He's always looked a class act to me.  He seems to have been in that Burnley side for years and yet he's only 21.  I'd have him over pereira in a shot.

 

[sne]

1 minute ago, tezzaleed said:

I'm not surprised by the anti mcneill guff on twitter and to a lesser degree in here.  He's not a glamour player thats scored loads of goals and as he plays for Burnley his stats aren't great,  but if there really is a chance we could get him I would be genuinely excited.  He's always looked a class act to me.  He seems to have been in that Burnley side for years and yet he's only 21.  I'd have him over pereira in a shot.

 

For the reported price of £40m-£50m?

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, tezzaleed said:

I'm not surprised by the anti mcneill guff on twitter and to a lesser degree in here.  He's not a glamour player thats scored loads of goals and as he plays for Burnley his stats aren't great,  but if there really is a chance we could get him I would be genuinely excited.  He's always looked a class act to me.  He seems to have been in that Burnley side for years and yet he's only 21.  I'd have him over pereira in a shot.

 

as many assists in the league as Phil Foden and James Maddison who didnt play for a team like Burnley

[tezzaleed]

1 minute ago, sne said:

For the reported price of £40m-£50m?

I'd take him for £30m-40m.  tbh can't see it happening as Burnley know how good he is and won't want to sell.  can see them demanding £50m and don't think we'd go that far.  They don't need to sell him and unless he makes a fuss why would they.

[Laughable Chimp]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

as many assists in the league as Phil Foden and James Maddison who didnt play for a team like Burnley

He also played like, twice the amount Foden and 1.5 times the amount Maddison did and those 2 scored a lot more goals than him.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Laughable Chimp

[tezzaleed]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

as many assists in the league as Phil Foden and James Maddison who didnt play for a team like Burnley

I hadn't checked but it doesn't surprise me he has so many assists he has quality delivery and thinking about it Burnley rely heavily on set pieces.

[tezzaleed]

10 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

He also played like, twice the amount Foden and 1.5 times the amount Maddison did and those 2 scored a lot more goals than him.

nonsense contextless stats really don't prove anything either way.  more interestingly what do you think of his style of play, technical ability, physical attributes and attitude?

Edited May 30, 2021 by tezzaleed

[Zatman]

9 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

He also played like, twice the amount Foden and 1.5 times the amount Maddison did and those 2 scored a lot more goals than him.

For Burnley, its like ignoring an important part

[MentalM]

2 hours ago, Jas10 said:

But do we really need more development players?

I believe what we need most is major quality that can take us to the next level and make us more formidable.

I 100% agree, thats why I am reluctant to the prospect of signing him.

Still I sit here in Norway knowing **** all, so I trust the people in charge of that decision to get it right!

At least I believe Buendia would strengthen us more, but I would prefer McNeill over Pereira. 

[TRO]

25 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I'm mostly agnostic about this link, but I think he's a better player than some are giving him credit for. He's fast, direct and has good close control of the ball. I think you can still criticise, and/or look to improve, a lack of end product.

But mostly what I think is that people should learn the lesson of Konsa, which is that players in his age bracket who have huge numbers of starts already under their belts, are often worth their weight in gold because so much of the mental side of the game that young players might have difficulties with should be much less challenging for them.

its a good point, worthy of thought.

[Laughable Chimp]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

For Burnley, its like ignoring an important part

I'm not ignoring it. I just don't think it overpowers the other 2 arguments.

In general though, I don't think the argument that because a player performed well for a poor club, that he'll be able to put on better numbers at a better club with better players is very convincing. Football is more complicated than that. How many players have actually performed well for a poor club, been bought by a better club and had their numbers considerably improve? I'm sure there are some, but I can also name players who made the move and failed to replicate their previous numbers, much less improve upon them. The former is not the expected outcome at all.

And its not like Mcneil has good output with Burnley in the first place nor are Burnley that much worse than us(we're only 6 places above them). He's output is poor, whilst playing for a team that's not that much worse than us. How much do you reasonably think it will improve if he did come to us, if it did at all? And would that output be worth the price we paid for him? It doesn't seem like they need nor want to sell and I've seen figures like 40 million thrown around for him. Is he really worth that kind of money? I don't think he is.

 

 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Jas10 said:

But do we really need more development players?

I believe what we need most is major quality that can take us to the next level and make us more formidable.

Jas, development players are fine, but too many is dodgy....its about balance again.

In my view....its like an orchestra, you can lose a couple of up and coming violinist or celloists.....but the conductor has to be an experienced individual on top of his game.

I go back to us.....We need that conductor in the middle of the park to direct play, between defence and attack......support the attack and defend the back four.

I think its the most standout position, we need to get right....and personally, I would set aside value for money and get the right man to lead us, which might mean making an offer a club can't refuse.....I would consider that for one player only of huge importance.

A Mortimer or a Barry to lead from Midfield.

[CVByrne]

Ultimately whatever wide player we sign this summer will represent a good addition to our first team. I cannot see us signing McNeil for a price we don't believe will be lower than his market value in 2 years of he joined us. 

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I'm not ignoring it. I just don't think it overpowers the other 2 arguments.

In general though, I don't think the argument that because a player performed well for a poor club, that he'll be able to put on better numbers at a better club with better players is very convincing. Football is more complicated than that. How many players have actually performed well for a poor club, been bought by a better club and had their numbers considerably improve? I'm sure there are some, but I can also name players who made the move and failed to replicate their previous numbers, much less improve upon them. The former is not the expected outcome at all.

And its not like Mcneil has good output with Burnley in the first place nor are Burnley that much worse than us(we're only 6 places above them). He's output is poor, whilst playing for a team that's not that much worse than us. How much do you reasonably think it will improve if he did come to us, if it did at all? And would that output be worth the price we paid for him? It doesn't seem like they need nor want to sell and I've seen figures like 40 million thrown around for him. Is he really worth that kind of money? I don't think he is.

 

 

We finished 16 points ahead of them scored 22 more and conceded 11 less. Not sure how we are anyway near similar to Burnley. We also have better attackers and a coaching team that improve attacking players 

I dont think we will sign him especially not for the money but he is not some dud that some people are suggesting. 18 assists in the last 3 seasons for a team that is usually bottom 6 and is still 21

[Jas10]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

Jas, development players are fine, but too many is dodgy....its about balance again.

In my view....its like an orchestra, you can lose a couple of up and coming violinist or celloists.....but the conductor has to be an experienced individual on top of his game.

I go back to us.....We need that conductor in the middle of the park to direct play, between defence and attack......support the attack and defend the back four.

I think its the most standout position, we need to get right....and personally, I would set aside value for money and get the right man to lead us, which might mean making an offer a club can't refuse.....I would consider that for one player only of huge importance.

A Mortimer or a Barry to lead from Midfield.

I agree TRO & that’s what I’m saying. We don’t need anymore development players, we need players for the here and now and to make our first team stronger. Which is why I’m not overly keen on McNeil as a target and particularly the amount of funds it would take to prise him away from Burnley (I don’t want us to waste our budget). I hope it’s just a rumour and we get much better quality that can upgrade us in the way that Emi & Ollie did…

Agree about midfield too, we need strength and the ability to control and dominate the ball… we must stop getting outmuscled & overpowered and we have been inviting too much pressure onto our defence and our exceptional GK because we have been poor at retaining possession and lose & release the ball too quickly & easily (McGinn has been a major culprit, he needs fitness & conditioning work to get him back to his best, El Ghazi also loses it cheaply and needs to be permanently relegated to the bench).

It badly needs addressing in preseason, both in training with our current players and with anyone we sign and introduce into the team. Other than a LB, I’m only interested in us signing players that can almost immediately go straight into our line up and elevate us (again, like our summer signings). Not squad filler or options…