Dwight McNeil

[Adam2003]

53 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I think I’m fairly knowledgeable about English football, watch all the games like most but if you’d ask me to write a list of achievable player targets for us this summer for about 50 names, I’m not sure McNeil would’ve been in there at 40m and I would reckon most here would be saying the same thing.  

Well sure but this is the same thing fans of other teams would have been saying about Grealish up until 18 months ago. They would have said we were nuts for saying that was cheap/amazing value for him. Same as we would say Burnley fans are nuts for saying DM is worth that... doesn’t mean they are wrong however much we think we know.

We can all think we are well informed but there aren’t enough hours in the day for us to watch every team’s games in close detail, and if there were then Burnley would be well down the list of teams most would prioritise...

Likewise I had literally never heard of Matty Cash a year ago!

Edited May 31, 2021 by Adam2003

[tezzaleed]

39 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I guess you didn’t like my post then...it was an honest opinion.  I’m guessing teams around would have fans saying the same thing from Arsenal to Everton and co about him if they were linked.

You can’t tell me he was an obvious name of a player to buy this summer?  He looks great, I worry about his poor stats but at 21 look a great age with 3 years experience in the PL.  

I think I’m fairly knowledgeable about English football, watch all the games like most but if you’d ask me to write a list of achievable player targets for us this summer for about 50 names, I’m not sure McNeil would’ve been in there at 40m and I would reckon most here would be saying the same thing.  

Now doing more review on him, he’s a talent but as with any player I have doubts and his stats jump out a mile to me.  If DM gave a crap about my thoughts or others on here that question that and doesn’t join because of that then who cares.  

I’d want a player that wants to be here and want to prove me wrong.  If he was offended by some honest constructive criticism then I’m not sure I want him here because that rings bells.  Once he plays for us he needs thick skin as this forum will be saying a lot worse if he doesn’t perform or has some bad form as we’ve seen this season for others (and before).

yep accept its your honest opinion.  I just think its garbage.  That's my opinion.  let's agree to differ.  Also never suggested DM would actually read your post just that if he did he wouldn't be overly impressed with the lack of enthusiasm and I can honestly say I've liked mcneill for nearly 2 seasons and would have loved us to have bought him and think he's exactly what we need to take this squad to the next level. 

look to be honest though I don't think it will happen I think Burnley know what they have,  don't need to sell and so will demand silly money in the region of £40-50m.  Mcneill himself seems settled there and won't kick up a fuss so I don't see him moving this year.  I expect him instead to move for £50 or 60m in a couple of seasons to a top 4 club.  So in effect we're arguing over nothing.  let's just wait and see who we bring in and just get behind them.  instead of getting dissapointed by players that haven't even signed.

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Well sure but this is the same thing fans of other teams would have been saying about Grealish up until 18 months ago.

I agree but the same could be of Alex Iwobi as somebody mentioned already.  We don’t know the future obviously and we don’t know whose going to succeed or not live up to their price tag.  All I did was give an assessment of DM which I don’t think was negative and the poster thought I was being negative.  I responded by saying he’s just wasn’t a name that I would’ve put on that list you mention above because it wasn’t a name that came to mind and I don’t remember anybody on here before the links saying we must sign DM (maybe somebody did and I missed it).  As I say he looks a talent, worried about his stats.

[KentVillan]

We haven’t made many dud signings from English clubs since Smith joined, really just Jota (who was very cheap) and one or two loans.

Heaton, Konsa, Hause, Mings, Targett, Cash, Watkins, Martinez is a decent track record.

Our problems have been much more with scouting players from foreign leagues.

So if we do make a move for McNeil (still a big if) I’d imagine the club will have a plan for him and a fair price worked out. £40m is a lot, but he’s very young and playing in a very direct relegation battling side who don’t really give their wingers loads of time in the attacking third, and still impressing.

Is he the star signing we all want? No, but he’d be a very good addition, and potentially a star of the future.

 

 

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, tezzaleed said:

yep accept its your honest opinion.  I just think its garbage.  That's my opinion.  let's agree to differ.  Also never suggested DM would actually read your post just that if he did he wouldn't be overly impressed with the lack of enthusiasm and I can honestly say I've liked mcneill for nearly 2 seasons and would have loved us to have bought him and think he's exactly what we need to take this squad to the next level. 

look to be honest though I don't think it will happen I think Burnley know what they have,  don't need to sell and so will demand silly money in the region of £40-50m.  Mcneill himself seems settled there and won't kick up a fuss so I don't see him moving this year.  I expect him instead to move for £50 or 60m in a couple of seasons to a top 4 club.  So in effect we're arguing over nothing.  let's just wait and see who we bring in and just get behind them.  instead of getting dissapointed by players that haven't even signed.

I basically said, I didn’t know much about him so wasn’t wowed by the links, but then I looked into him and then I loved his YouTube clips but worried about his stats.  I don’t know how you see that as a garbage view.  You have more history with him but I’m not sure you can argue with my view....you obviously agree his YouTube clips look great...we agree, I assume....then his stats are poor, two goals per season and 5 and 6 assists.  Both Traore and El Ghazi trounce those stats, so you must agree with that, his stats look poor.  So we have to look beyond that with his age, club and video clips and I was positive about that...so again I’m not sure how my view is garbage.

Second paragraph you go on to almost agreeing with me about wanting silly money ‘40-50m’ for him....so how is my concern for that money unwarranted when you have called it silly money for him.  If he’s going to be worth 60m why would it be silly money to buy him now for 40m? Surely it makes sense to pay premium now before an elite club buys him and we have no chance then.

You confuse me with your logic!

[Adam2003]

25 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I agree but the same could be of Alex Iwobi as somebody mentioned already.  We don’t know the future obviously and we don’t know whose going to succeed or not live up to their price tag.  All I did was give an assessment of DM which I don’t think was negative and the poster thought I was being negative.  I responded by saying he’s just wasn’t a name that I would’ve put on that list you mention above because it wasn’t a name that came to mind and I don’t remember anybody on here before the links saying we must sign DM (maybe somebody did and I missed it).  As I say he looks a talent, worried about his stats.

Yeah I wasn’t saying anything you were saying was unfair. I think Downing is the best comparison I have seen for him fwiw.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

9 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

71 games at CF 38 goals 11 assists

Vitesse 18 goals

Chelsea 4 goals

Ajax 4 goals

Lyon 12 goals

This is all comps including domestic cups and European cups

5058 minutes at CF the most in one season being Vitesse 14/15 season. 1375 mins 17 appearances 12 goals 4 assists

What site are you using to parse those statistics? The numbers are phenomenal, but also Dutch league. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

8 hours ago, nick76 said:

I agree but the same could be of Alex Iwobi as somebody mentioned already.  

But Iwobi is known for not having an end product, I don't think that's the case with McNeil even if the stats don't bear witness? Which would lead one to believe there is either bias at play, or it's because he plays for Burnley. With all due respect to them. 

[nick76]

30 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

But Iwobi is known for not having an end product, I don't think that's the case with McNeil even if the stats don't bear witness? Which would lead one to believe there is either bias at play, or it's because he plays for Burnley. With all due respect to them. 

Iwobi final two seasons at Arsenal before big move to Everton

18/19 - 3 league goals, 2 European goals, 6 league assists

17/18 - 3 league goals, 5 assists

Dwight McNeil DM)

20/21 - 2 league goals, 5 assists

19/20 - 2 league goals, 6 assists

Not full proof of end product because if players don’t chances that’s not DMs fault but he had an xA (assists expectation) of 6.85 last season which suggests that’s not the case.  

Again it’s only stats which look poor in comparison to others but he does play for Burnley and he does look good in video.  I’ve done more research and he looks great but 40m is a lot of money.  I wouldn’t blink at 20m.  My concern is not DM just this purchase of a creative player is so key for us even just to take some burden of Jack.

If we were buying DM and Buendia then I’m good but I very much doubt even our budget would cover that.  So I just get concerned with where our budget goes, which to some sounds like I’m being negative on a player when really I’m just concerned because these decisions will have massive impacts to our season and slightly less to do with the player themselves...

Edited June 1, 2021 by nick76

[Kiwivillan]

32 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

What site are you using to parse those statistics? The numbers are phenomenal, but also Dutch league. 

Transfermarkt. I'm pretty sure as long as I've been following the the PL since it's inception a few good players have come from Dutch league and French league 

[DaveAV1]

9 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

Yeah I wasn’t saying anything you were saying was unfair. I think Downing is the best comparison I have seen for him fwiw.

You clearly have never seen Downing’s dustbin video....

[tezzaleed]

9 hours ago, nick76 said:

I basically said, I didn’t know much about him so wasn’t wowed by the links, but then I looked into him and then I loved his YouTube clips but worried about his stats.  I don’t know how you see that as a garbage view.  You have more history with him but I’m not sure you can argue with my view....you obviously agree his YouTube clips look great...we agree, I assume....then his stats are poor, two goals per season and 5 and 6 assists.  Both Traore and El Ghazi trounce those stats, so you must agree with that, his stats look poor.  So we have to look beyond that with his age, club and video clips and I was positive about that...so again I’m not sure how my view is garbage.

Second paragraph you go on to almost agreeing with me about wanting silly money ‘40-50m’ for him....so how is my concern for that money unwarranted when you have called it silly money for him.  If he’s going to be worth 60m why would it be silly money to buy him now for 40m? Surely it makes sense to pay premium now before an elite club buys him and we have no chance then.

You confuse me with your logic!

not seen any of his YouTube clips.  I can just remember him from watching him in Burnley games,  YouTube clips can make anyone look good or bad.  don't agree that just looking at goals scored and assists over two seasons is a legitimate review of his stats.  I'm not going to engage further as he's unlikely to come so this is a pointless argument.  

[dont_do_it_doug.]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Iwobi final two seasons at Arsenal before big move to Everton

18/19 - 3 league goals, 2 European goals, 6 league assists

17/18 - 3 league goals, 5 assists

Dwight McNeil DM)

20/21 - 2 league goals, 5 assists

19/20 - 2 league goals, 6 assists

Not full proof of end product because if players don’t chances that’s not DMs fault but he had an xA (assists expectation) of 6.85 last season which suggests that’s not the case.  

I was talking more about the eye test than the numbers, it's clear to me that Iwobi doesn't have much of an end product and McNeil has some. I'm a big advocate for using statistical measures when assessing a players performance, but that then has to backed up by good old fashioned scouting.

6.85 xA playing for Burnley is great, imo. 

Agree on the rest, getting value is important. I am unsure whether McNeil represents that, the proof of the pudding would be in the eating. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by dont_do_it_doug.

[Kiwivillan]

3 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I was talking more about the eye test than the numbers, it's clear to me that Iwobi doesn't have much of an end product and McNeil does. I'm a big advocate for using statistical measures when assessing a players performance, but that then has to backed up by the eye test. 

6.85 xA playing for Burnley is great, imo. 

Agree on the rest, getting value is important. I am unsure whether McNeil represents that, the proof of the pudding would be in the eating. 

Just checked 3rd best xA for midfielders in PL last season behind Fernandes and Salah and ahead of Mount Raphina Grealish KDB and he's a Burnley player... 

 

Should we be looking at this Westwood character?

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Just checked 3rd best xA for midfielders in PL last season behind Fernandes and Salah and ahead of Mount Raphina Grealish KDB and he's a Burnley player... 

 

Should we be looking at this Westwood character?

He does take set pieces and Burnley are a set piece team. Maybe his delivery is not brilliant if he isnt assisting more

[Kiwivillan]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

He does take set pieces and Burnley are a set piece team. Maybe his delivery is not brilliant if he isnt assisting more

Only achieved half his xA KDB doubled then Grealish Raphina Fernandes exceeded in that order

[Laughable Chimp]

11 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Just checked 3rd best xA for midfielders in PL last season behind Fernandes and Salah and ahead of Mount Raphina Grealish KDB and he's a Burnley player... 

 

Should we be looking at this Westwood character?

Which website are you looking at? Understat and FBref say otherwise.

[KenjiOgiwara]

2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

But Iwobi is known for not having an end product, I don't think that's the case with McNeil even if the stats don't bear witness? Which would lead one to believe there is either bias at play, or it's because he plays for Burnley. With all due respect to them. 

I will admit I haven't watched McNeil enough to make an opinion really, but after watching his youtube wheel, I have to say that the lack of end product is exactly what I was thinking. A lot of nice runs with the ball but after the shot or pass you see the movie cuts to a new clip. Nothing came of it. It was literally the EXACT thing I was thinking after watching it, the lack of end product that is.

But I don't have a strong opinion either way. I just hope he doesn't cut inside.

[Kiwivillan]

1 minute ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Which website are you looking at? Understat and FBref say otherwise.

Fantasy Football Scout which pulls data from OPTA

[dont_do_it_doug.]

8 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I will admit I haven't watched McNeil enough to make an opinion really, but after watching his youtube wheel, I have to say that the lack of end product is exactly what I was thinking. A lot of nice runs with the ball but after the shot or pass you see the movie cuts to a new clip. Nothing came of it. It was literally the EXACT thing I was thinking after watching it, the lack of end product that is.

But I don't have a strong opinion either way. I just hope he doesn't cut inside.

Youtube :shrug: