KangarooVillan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 8 hours ago, Jas10 said: Different ways of looking at it, it’s not as straightforward as it may seem. From my POV Buendia is highly talented and could become a genuine star, a far superior player. Regardless, I could never see McNeil performing as well and producing the amount of goals and assists as Buendia has in recent years (particularly in the Championship), he is a creative monster. Anyway, you’re entitled to rate McNeil. I won’t be changing my mind Haha fair enough. I do rate Buendia - on the ball he’s the better of the two right now. I have a feeling we may end up with both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 God I hope we don't sign McNeil he is crap. Traore is twice the player he is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, MotoMkali said: God I hope we don't sign McNeil he is crap. Traore is twice the player he is. Pereira more chances and big chances created than McNeil in 500 less minutes. Also 27 shots on target vs 9. Assume they would cost similar and Pereira plays as #10 which we need vs McNeil a left winger in a 442/4411 team I know who I'd prefer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 19 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Pereira more chances and big chances created than McNeil in 500 less minutes. Also 27 shots on target vs 9. Assume they would cost similar and Pereira plays as #10 which we need vs McNeil a left winger in a 442/4411 team I know who I'd prefer Disagree with your reasoning. I think we need a LW so jack can play CAM. But McNeil should not be that winger he is not the calibre of player we need. I don't think he'd be any sort of upgrade on el Ghazi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted May 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Pereira more chances and big chances created than McNeil in 500 less minutes. Also 27 shots on target vs 9. Assume they would cost similar and Pereira plays as #10 which we need vs McNeil a left winger in a 442/4411 team I know who I'd prefer Neither are an upgrade on what we currently have, Pereira's stats are very similar to Traore's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, MotoMkali said: Disagree with your reasoning. I think we need a LW so jack can play CAM. But McNeil should not be that winger he is not the calibre of player we need. I don't think he'd be any sort of upgrade on el Ghazi. Grealish goal involvement massively come from LW not CAM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, QldVilla said: Neither are an upgrade on what we currently have, Pereira's stats are very similar to Traore's. Pereira double chances and big chances created that of Traore. We have better players to convert the chances than Baggies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted May 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2021 35 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Pereira double chances and big chances created that of Traore. We have better players to convert the chances than Baggies It's not what the stats say and Traore plays on the right. It's about end product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, QldVilla said: It's not what the stats say and Traore plays on the right. It's about end product. Stats are expected goals and expected assists not simply actual goals and actual assists. If a player takes more big chance shots on goal or creates more big chance assists a goal is more likely to be scored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted May 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Stats are expected goals and expected assists not simply actual goals and actual assists. If a player takes more big chance shots on goal or creates more big chance assists a goal is more likely to be scored That's nice, but I'll continue to rely on my eye, rather than regurgitate stats to justify my opinion. I don't believe he'll improve the squad, believe there are better players for us moving forward, and at the end of the day it is what the club believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, QldVilla said: That's nice, but I'll continue to rely on my eye, rather than regurgitate stats to justify my opinion. I don't believe he'll improve the squad, believe there are better players for us moving forward, and at the end of the day it is what the club believe. I've made thousands over the years in FPL cash leagues relying about +80% on underlying stats. Clubs employ stats people to shape transfer decisions. It's more relevant than you probably realise Edited May 30, 2021 by Kiwivillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KangarooVillan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: Pereira more chances and big chances created than McNeil in 500 less minutes. Also 27 shots on target vs 9. Assume they would cost similar and Pereira plays as #10 which we need vs McNeil a left winger in a 442/4411 team I know who I'd prefer Out of curiosity, do you think McNeil would have less stats in this area due to the way Burnley play? If you’re job is to just lob crosses into the box you’re inherently less likely to create chances or big chances. You’re also less likely to be in a shooting position. Conversely Pereira was West Brom’s main attacking force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted May 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: I've made thousands over the years in FPL cash leagues relying about +80% on underlying stats. Clubs employ stats people to shape transfer decisions. It's more relevant than you probably realise Instead of making assumptions and justifying your position, maybe pay more attention to what people are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 minute ago, KangarooVillan said: Out of curiosity, do you think McNeil would have less stats in this area due to the way Burnley play? If you’re job is to just lob crosses into the box you’re inherently less likely to create chances or big chances. You’re also less likely to be in a shooting position. Conversely Pereira was West Brom’s main attacking force. Of course but Burnley play different system and we don't need an orthodox 442 winger but we do need a Barkley type CAM that isn't a basket case. I would like 1 of our signings to be a CAM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, QldVilla said: Instead of making assumptions and justifying your position, maybe pay more attention to what people are saying. Your last response was eye test vs stats. Clubs employ scouts and data analysts and both are important Edited May 30, 2021 by Kiwivillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted May 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2021 3 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: Your last response was eye test vs stats. Clubs employ scouts and data analysts and both are important Yes, yes, scouts to WATCH games, not sit in the dark in front of a computer and tell them who are good players based on statistics with no context. Still you miss the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 3 hours ago, QldVilla said: Instead of making assumptions and justifying your position, maybe pay more attention to what people are saying. No chance of that. Last season the blinkered vision was that we didn't need squad depth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MentalM Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 McNeill is a good player, would not the be my first name on a list. However the idea of him in a team that plays a bit more technical than Burnley it would be really exciting to see how he develops. At the moment he is basically Burnleys only player capable of much other than long balls or set pieces. (Exaggerated by me, I respect Burnley) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 15 hours ago, KangarooVillan said: Pereira drops in and out of games too much for me. Keep in mind to, his 11G and 6A look good, but 4 of his goals were penalties. Without those he looks like a less mystical Traore. When comparing Buendia and McNeil remember Buendia is 24 and McNeil is 21. Buendia is only 1 year younger than Jack and McNeil is 3 years younger than Buendia. McNeil also has better Premier League form than either Jack or Buendia at the same age. Pereira seemed to come good when Baggies were pretty much down. Bit like Ayew when we got relegated, hit a bit of good form and looks better in a shit team Doesn't mean he will do it at another club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, KangarooVillan said: Out of curiosity, do you think McNeil would have less stats in this area due to the way Burnley play? If you’re job is to just lob crosses into the box you’re inherently less likely to create chances or big chances. You’re also less likely to be in a shooting position. Conversely Pereira was West Brom’s main attacking force. Conversely, shouldn’t he have more assists when he’s being relied on to supply big target men like Wood & Barnes? If he’s their main creative force then his stats impress even less. The main thing that stands out about him is he has age on his side. I can see the appeal of signing him for some, young with potential being the most relevant point. But I would not want us to pay more than 15-20m for that when our budget/funds could be better utilised imo. And Burnley would want at least 40m, I suspect. They don’t need to sell him & value him highly. I think that would be a huge waste. Would he really be any better than our existing wingers or attacking players? Or offer more of a contribution? I really don’t see it… it doesn’t strike me as an ambitious or exciting signing. We already have the youngest squad and promising youngsters coming through so I would personally prefer a higher class of signing that can genuinely elevate us such as the signings of Martinez & Watkins did. We need players almost comparable to Jack’s level - maybe not quite the same attributes but a similar level of impact and efficiency - if we genuinely want to take another big step forward in our progress and standing next season and lessen our reliance on him. One way of looking at things is, if we want to fight for top 6/8, is would some of the players we have (e.g. Nakamba) and some of the players we’re allegedly targeting (e.g. McNeil) get into and consistently perform in those first 11s? With those examples, I don’t see it at all so we need better… Edited May 30, 2021 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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