Team shape, tactics and personnel

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

We’ve been tackling very well under Emery. We lost because we made 4 catastrophic errors and they got punished. That’s unprecedented. 1 maybe 2 catastrophic errors usually get punished but not 4. 

Away from Home.

• Away from Home we can play our counter attacking game with impunity, a game we are comfortable with....we can defend in numbers, without scrutiny and are not required to take the game to the opposition.
• At Home, the onus is on us to make the game a spectacle, we are expected to take the game to the opposition, it requires a more possession based game, as opposed to counter attacking, and we don't seem as comfortable with that, at the moment.

There is much work to do, and some players won't meet the standards.....so we just have to trust the process, and wait for UE to get further down the line with them. In the mean time we can expect these results, from a typical mid table side.

I also suspect John McGinn and Carlos's return, will be welcome.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

For the record a hospital pass is one where it’s weak so a defender has time to put a challenge in before it gets to you.  It wasn’t a hospital pass and I’m pretty sure Kamara would have asked for it. It’s a way of playing we have to get used to under Unai to beat the press. Hopefully it doesn’t cost us too many goals! 

Kamara had his back to the 3 opposing players, they were poised to pounce, that was pre planned.....Emi could clearly see them and to compound the issue, we had 2 players to his right and left, perfectly placed in no danger to play upfield...as an option.

There was clearly no excuse, I could not guess, what he was thinking.....Even kids football, would raise eyebrows, doing that.

Man City did it to a similar degree, against Spurs and it cost them the game, could cost them the title......I don't care who the managers are, both are world class...but I am not talking about their careers, I'm talking about stupid incidents, where players lose the ball in a challenge, that can easily be avoided.

The best players in the world, can lose a ball in a challenge from a fiesty opponent.....so its prudent, not to make it easy for them.....That is possibly the easiest way to bring a team back in to a game.

Unai has to address that.

Edited February 6, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

7 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

For the record a hospital pass is one where it’s weak so a defender has time to put a challenge in before it gets to you.  It wasn’t a hospital pass and I’m pretty sure Kamara would have asked for it. It’s a way of playing we have to get used to under Unai to beat the press. Hopefully it doesn’t cost us too many goals! 

my interpretation of a hospital pass, is where the recipient is played a ball, and the opposition have as much chance of getting it as the recipient....so I get what you are saying.

In this case, Emi had an advantage of seeing a clearer picture of the possible danger, than Kamara did and he was delivering the ball.....so I get your point......but it only excuses the descriptive word, not the incident, itself.

Edited February 6, 2023 by TRO

[DJBOB]

Yeah look how snappy that pass is. Konsa and Mings both take too many touches and telegraph that pass coming so that the defender has closed down usually Ollie by the time he receives it. 
 
Unai will either have them learn or benched. 

[Tomaszk]

3 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said:

 This is what we’re trying to do 

Sad fact Brighton have better players right now. Some anyway. And they've been playing out from the back for years.

I do wish we would try their 3421 shape as well. Suits our squad so well. Perfectly.

[gwi1890]

22 hours ago, DJBOB said:

Until Konsa learns to pass better, I don't think it matters where he plays.

I mean his passing accuracy is amongst the best each game , he had the highest passing accuracy of all the players Saturday (96%) and he and Ashely Young were the only players to win all of their ground duels,  and once again he wasn’t dribbled past. every other player were under 50% in ground duels won.  Statistically he is one of the best central defenders in the league but obviously we can’t judge players on data alone. But to the point about  playing RB he’s never really looked comfortable playing there but obviously what Emery requires right backs to do is different to what other managers have wanted here in the past.

[MaVilla]

i read somewhere that when Cash came on versus Leicester, Emery at some point started getting a bit upset by what Cash was doing, waving his arms about and getting frustrated with him, did anyone else actually see this?

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

i read somewhere that when Cash came on versus Leicester, Emery at some point started getting a bit upset by what Cash was doing, waving his arms about and getting frustrated with him, did anyone else actually see this?

I didn’t but I heard 40k fans get frustrated with him. 

[DJBOB]

46 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

I mean his passing accuracy is amongst the best each game , he had the highest passing accuracy of all the players Saturday (96%) and he and Ashely Young were the only players to win all of their ground duels,  and once again he wasn’t dribbled past. every other player were under 50% in ground duels won.  Statistically he is one of the best central defenders in the league but obviously we can’t judge players on data alone. But to the point about  playing RB he’s never really looked comfortable playing there but obviously what Emery requires right backs to do is different to what other managers have wanted here in the past.

Nah 96% accuracy with only 1 progressive pass compared to Mings 5, Young 6, Cash 5, Digne 3, and Moreno 1 but that’s probably because he played as LW for the second half.

He doesn’t have to be an incredible ball playing CB but he plays it safe and regularly leaves his midfielders and Mings out to dry trying to get rid.

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I didn’t but I heard 40k fans get frustrated with him. 

I have been frustrated with him, for some time now.

He is simply passive in the challenge, and is easily beaten...I find it Insipid.

I think UE is right about the full backs ( Digne and Cash)....they don't do enough to contribute to defending.....their position play alone, is poor.

[TRO]

On 05/02/2023 at 14:49, DJBOB said:

Until Konsa learns to pass better, I don't think it matters where he plays.

The strange thing is...his passing Stats were good, bar from one bad one.....mind you, does he make any really purposeful passes, they are always dinks to someone close to him....no wonder his stats were good.

stats can be misleading.

I am just not convinced in other aspects of his game. I think he is player, most players would like to play against.

Edited February 6, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

On 05/02/2023 at 14:23, rodders0223 said:

Steve Bruce would like a word with you.

Macca made defensive concept hip....He was the cool dude, that we all revered....poetry in motion.

Defensive work can be very satisfying to watch, done properly........

That's the objective bit.

[TRO]

I am a bit confused.

UE says he wants to continue with playing out from the back.......I am fine with that.

but is he saying they can't mix it up, when the lads smell danger?....that will surely encourage opponents to play on it.

I am not sure, what is actually being said, in context.

[paul514]

33 minutes ago, TRO said:

I have been frustrated with him, for some time now.

He is simply passive in the challenge, and is easily beaten...I find it Insipid.

I think UE is right about the full backs ( Digne and Cash)....they don't do enough to contribute to defending.....their position play alone, is poor.

Fair enough but I wouldn't freeze them out, it just reduces the chances of selling at a decent price in the summer

[DJBOB]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am a bit confused.

UE says he wants to continue with playing out from the back.......I am fine with that.

but is he saying they can't mix it up, when the lads smell danger?....that will surely encourage opponents to play on it.

I am not sure, what is actually being said, in context.

He means that it's okay to go long sometimes, but to go long any time there's any danger defeats the purpose.

The passes along the back are meant to attract danger, that's what opens the space further up the pitch. Yes, there's a bit of common sense to it, but Unai is committed to playing this way (within reason hopefully).

Gerrard started out wanting to play from the back but got scared and decided to go with mind numbing hoof ball that eventually led us to the insipid brand of safe, boring football unable to open up a can of beans.

The good thing about Unai is that he knows when to switch it up and I think tactically, it was still the right call against Leicester. Their strength is in that forward line and their midfield but if they were stretched out, they could be had at. 

This time - our execution was woeful but the strategy was sound.

Edited February 6, 2023 by DJBOB

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, paul514 said:

Fair enough but I wouldn't freeze them out, it just reduces the chances of selling at a decent price in the summer

but you can't keep playing, players, who are a liability....and I don't think UE will

Digne, was a very poor deal, paid far too much, for his age and ability to defend......Cash was ok at an earlier time in our Journey, but not now

A forensic look needs to be had, at our recruitment, I am unconvinced in many ways.....I hope Unai does that.

[CVByrne]

We need players who are comfortable playing out from the back in that they are comfortable with the pressure applied by opposition press and importantly can play passes to beat the press. All of this takes time to build and coach so we were alwa going to have these moments when we look stupid and give away cheap goals. The players will learn and get better 

[DJBOB]

2 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

We need players who are comfortable playing out from the back in that they are comfortable with the pressure applied by opposition press and importantly can play passes to beat the press. All of this takes time to build and coach so we were alwa going to have these moments when we look stupid and give away cheap goals. The players will learn and get better 

You can also have a billion pound roster and still look stupid and give away cheap goals!

[TRO]

I often wonder, if some of the players that feature in teams above us, would actually be passed over by us.

I am still not convinced by the mix of our squad.

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

You can also have a billion pound roster and still look stupid and give away cheap goals!

You can also have a modestly constructed defence in financial terms like Newcastle and be sitting on the best goals against column in the league.

Its about the ability to recruit well, which is the main criteria.

They have gone from one of the worst defences to the best, by shrewd selection of targets.....Botman, being the only expensive buy, in that dep't.