Team shape, tactics and personnel

[mykeyb]

22 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

I don’t believe in his system.

He’s copied Liverpool’s blueprint but doesn’t have the players to make it work.

Our fullbacks are forced to run the length of the pitch back and forth because we don’t control the play. They are knackered after a full sprint getting into position and are in no state to defend properly when getting back or put in a cross when getting forward. Our previous star midfielders of McGinn and Ramsey are pinned back as wide defensive midfielders, pressing the opposition wingers. Luiz is left in the middle of the park by himself getting over run. Our star attacking midfielders are forced to come deep for the ball and have too many players in front of them to do anything with it and our striker is isolated and well covered by defenders.

We are barely recording any shots on target whilst regularly being cut open. 

My biggest worry is that Gerrard has all his eggs in this ‘system’ because it worked in Scotland and is not capable of finding one that actually suits our personnel. He’s not shown any kind of tactical flexibility as yet and his answer today to his plan not working was to throw on all the attacking players at once. It reminded me of Lambert against Bradford in the League Cup semifinal.

So what's the answer, a back 3?

I am not sure how we fit Buendia and Coutinho in unless you move them out wide and I don't think that's the answer

[Villa87]

For me we should go 4231

Emi

Cash Konsa Mings Digne 

Ramsey McGinn

Bailey Coutinho Buendia

Ings

[sheepyvillian]

3 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

This season has made me kind of waver on our transfer policy. Coutinho and Digne are quality signings, but I hope they're just opportunistic signings and not the new normal because sooner or later, you keep stockpiling 28-30 year olds for massive money...you become Everton (or Aston Villa circa 10 years ago) before you realize it.

I gotta be honest, Digne has done nothing to impress me so far. He has this irritating habit of constantly switching back with the ball. Very frustrating. 

[VillaChris]

11 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

So what's the answer, a back 3?

I am not sure how we fit Buendia and Coutinho in unless you move them out wide and I don't think that's the answer

Buendia has fizzled out a bit again so perhaps needs to go back to bench.

Ideally I'd bring in Bailey on right just to add more direct play but he looks miles off starting and making an impact.

Probably makes sense to bring in another CM and have Coutinho playing in free role in 4-4-1-1 perhaps.

[Adam2003]

3 minutes ago, By the arse of McGinn said:

As for Gerrard, I couldn’t believe he even put Ings and Watkins in a 442 when it’s been nothing short of pathetic every time prior

In his defence you’d expect them to score in a 4-4-2 against a random selection of guys off the street, which is basically Watford…

The worrying part is what them not even coming close says!

[VillaParkAvenue]

23 minutes ago, Villa87 said:

For me we should go 4231

Emi

Cash Konsa Mings Digne 

Ramsey McGinn

Bailey Coutinho Buendia

Ings

Ramsey and McGinn are two very attack minded players to have in a double pivot.

[Wainy316]

Nakamba’s injury has derailed everything hasn’t it.  Who ever thought that would be a thing?

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Nakamba’s injury has derailed everything hasn’t it.  Who ever thought that would be a thing?

Also shows what a game changer a quality DCM would do for this team.  Better control of possession, somebody to defend the defence, somebody to step in when a fullback is too far up the pitch, to start new moves, giving more freeness to our creative players to take risks, which leads to hopefully more goals and less conceded goals.

[VillaParkAvenue]

6 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Also shows what a game changer a quality DCM would do for this team.  Better control of possession, somebody to defend the defence, somebody to step in when a fullback is too far up the pitch, to start new moves, giving more freeness to our creative players to take risks, which leads to hopefully more goals and less conceded goals.

A good allround DM could do that but probably not Nakamba. Nakamba can win you the ball, but won’t make you keep possession. 

[vreitti]

24 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Nakamba’s injury has derailed everything hasn’t it.  Who ever thought that would be a thing?

If this really is the case, what does it say about manager's ability? 

[Rightdm00]

Not putting the SPL in the greatest light if this system worked there. Why would you design a setup that makes your 2 most attacking players fullbacks? We have a front line that cost over £100 million in transfer fees but we are completely reliant on our full backs for any attacking impetus. Truly boggles the mind. 

[GingerCollins29]

1 minute ago, vreitti said:

If this really is the case, what does it say about manager's ability? 

And why was it not the absolute priority in the jan window?

[Kiwivillan]

35 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Nakamba’s injury has derailed everything hasn’t it.  Who ever thought that would be a thing?

We could've been a contender. We could've been some team. But all we got was a one-way ticket to Palookaville.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

7 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Yeah, I doubt Gerrard would've ever come here had we not had Nakamba in the squad. 

That's not the point... But ok

The bulk of our midfielders, are the same type of midfielder, hence making one, when on form, more crucial to a " system " to work, than others.

If the rest of the midfielders were better all round midfielders, it wouldn't be as crucial or difficult to replicate success.

This is why I've said, I'd even play Chambers in the holding role.

People are pissed off, so no sense or sensibility will be seen.

The fact that Nakamba is technically one of our " poorer " players, but still proved effective in the holding role, meaning the rest of them could play to their strengths, from defense to attack, has less to do with the player, and more to do with the other players we have there.

Basically, a Nakamba type, was the glue to the initial success, and it would have been easier to bobble along if we were missing a left back, winger, even a striker etc. ( As we have backup ).

Nakamba, in that form, was the only one of the type we had, which most of us pointed out as a weak area.

Similarly to how we.looked when we missed Watkins of last season etc.

[MrBlack]

32 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Not putting the SPL in the greatest light if this system worked there. Why would you design a setup that makes your 2 most attacking players fullbacks? We have a front line that cost over £100 million in transfer fees but we are completely reliant on our full backs for any attacking impetus. Truly boggles the mind. 

It's shocking isn't it.  There was a moment in the second half where we had a great attack going,  and it broke down because Cash hadn't made it forward to support. It was so blatant our forward was looking to play in the overlapping fullback, then realised they weren't there and then we proceeded to give the ball away. 

Cash was brought off shortly after, but it isn't a system that is reliable unless your wing back is Cancelo.

We need a change of personnel and tactics for the next game or we're continuing this winless streak. 

[Delphinho123]

Our system is f***** awful.

Our fullbacks are everything and our central midfielders are basically defenders. It’s boring and we’ve been found out.

I much prefer a 4-2-3-1 with the wingers exposing the fullback and beating their man one on one. 

Gerrard hasn’t got a f***** clue if he continues with this nonsense. Cash and Digne are expected to basically do everything. Pathetic. 

[VillaParkAvenue]

5 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

The system we’re playing right now is horrible. Without a decent DM, or 2 for that matter, I have some sympathy, but still, it’s horrible to watch. 

We’re not capable of playing like Liverpool and we’ll do it next week, the week after, and the week after that. 

And we’ll allegedly sign players like Suarez, Gomez and Pepe Reina to make sure it works.

[VillanousOne]

So what we seem to see is most attacks very slowly drift down to the left to Digne, usually he is pretty crowded out by the time he gets to a crossing position and the defending side is all back behind the ball and the cross never goes anywhere or there is never enough of our team in the box to do anything.

Similar with Cash, except he tends to get more space but usually fails to do anything with it.

Or we lump it Watkins who has three players marking him and nullfying him.

sometimes Coutinho or Ramsey gets a run on goal and occasionally you see some nice through balls but rarely do we convert them into goals.

If you look at the goals we concede - they are all from players breaking at pace (usually with width) and our players being out of position or hopelessly static. Yet we rarely do the same to other teams, we don't break with pace and guile we are ponderous and slow without the quality needed to really utilise the talent we have from Coutinho and Buendia.

At the moment we don't need two attacking central midfielders, especially with McGinn and Luiz offering so little in terms of defensive qualities or effective passing.

We play like we are a top 5 team but don't have the stones or the talent to achieve what Gerrard seems to think we can.

I would push Buendia wide right and put Bailey or Traore when fit on the other side (or other way round), the wing backs can overlap when needed but they should focus on defending more than trying to be wingers. I know there are many reasons why Bailey and Traore may not work/be fit enough, but something has to change.

Martinez

Cash - Konsa - Mings - Digne

-- Sanson - Coutinho -- Ramsey --

Buendia --- Watkins/Ings --- Bailey/Traore

drop McGinn and Luiz

[TRO]

On 18/02/2022 at 17:42, OutByEaster? said:

Today's Villa team would run rings around all of those sides - the game is simply faster, more athletic and more physically demanding than forty years ago.

I think it's a lot harder to make an impression on the basis of hard work nowadays, every player is working at a high physical level, they aren't the eight pints a night and a steak at half time players of the past, they're athletic freaks in many ways, many of the great players of the past wouldn't make it now because they wouldn't have had the genetic gifts required to reach the levels of fitness required. To stand out in the modern game on the basis of hard work is difficult - every team is physically capable and is grafting, it's a minimum, it's measured during games and it a basic fundamental that's in place by the time they reach this level.

City's running stats aren't great - they don't work harder than most sides - they keep the ball well and they save themselves for quick bursts of pressure or tactical fouls when they lose it - it's their mental ability, their system and their ability on the ball that give them control. 

If our tactical plan is "work harder" our manager will find himself in a lot of trouble pretty quickly.

They move it well too, and move themselves to retrieve it.....Stats can be deceiving.

I think your interpretation is way off the mark.

firstly, you can't take 2 teams out of different era's and compare....if they all drank 8 pints and eat steak, that would be a levelling factor......whether work is hard in 1960 or 2022....its still hard work.

players in those days, were not athletes granted, but neither was the opposition... so it was a level playing field....they are today, but so is the opposition.

All the top teams, put hard work, very high on their agenda, so I think you are wrong to dismiss it, like you do.....and in 1981, it was the cornerstone of our greatest achievements...just a reminder.

You can talk tactics, but it won't make a poor player a good one.

our manager probably is in a bit of trouble already with the squad he has.....and I don't think the tactics will change that.

 

 

[KAZZAM]

Konsa will be back so maybe it's time to try Chambers as that DCM. 

        Martinez 

 Cash- Konsa- Mings- Digne

Douglas - Chambers-Ramsey 

   Buendia - Ings - Coutinho 

I've gone for Douglas luiz over Mcginn as I think he could be a better creative outlet as the RCM8 and also better defensively. Would've considered Sanson but he just doesn't seem to get a look in so just a pipe dream atm. 

Think Cash shouldn't overommit going forward either.