Formula One - 2021

[Djemba_Villan]

1 hour ago, BOF said:

I think any short term benefit the sport received by having a thrilling finish for the cameras can very easily be over-shadowed by the damage done to the sport by how that thrilling finish came about. I don't think it's a stretch to say the integrity of the sport; if not damaged; was certainly called into question by the scarcely defensible actions of the race officials this weekend, and that can have a far more long-lasting damage than any instant gratification gave us.  If you end up irreparably damaging your sport (and I don't think they've quite gone that far here...) in a single-minded attempt to appeal to the casual fan, or even worse, the person who doesn't give a shit about it but talks about it by the water cooler, then you have got your priorities wrong and you are no longer working for the best interests of the sport that you're in charge of.  You end up with WWE if the racing isn't organic.

I think my point is that the people questioning it are fans already, who regularly get annoyed by these sorts of incidents. But they have potentially gained a far broader viewership. It was pure drama to a layman newcomer. The ‘damage’ will be forgotten soon by many - like most things. (Even in football no real measurable material damage has actually been caused by the breakout league, examples of corruption, poor isolated decisions etc.)
 

Not agreeing with it morally but it’s probably how the new owners and also the teams envisage growth of the sport. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Djemba_Villan

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think if Masi stays on it'll damage the integrity of the sport. He's pretty clearly made a decision to change the rules for a more exciting finish and his sarcastic reaction to Wolff when asked about it was for me really wrong. If he doesn't go, it'll be pretty hard not to draw the conclusion that his actions were the result of some significant influence by some people very high up in F1.

Your description of a sport changed to appeal to the water cooler crowd sounds horribly like the Premier League to me.

 

Apparently Wolff said the same theto Masi earlier thats why he responded that way

[OutByEaster?]

25 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Apparently Wolff said the same theto Masi earlier thats why he responded that way

Even so, as a rule maker you can't get involved in tit-for-tat exchanges - when footballers swear, it's vital that referees don't swear back at them.

 

[sidcow]

2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Personally, I thought it was a decent bit of innovation and I’d like to see football pick it up.

At 90 minutes, instead of holding up a board to indicate extra minutes, they should hold up a board that says ‘next goal wins’.

 

When we were 7 - 2 up against Liverpool I would bet my house on that protocol being activated. 

[Genie]

2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Personally, I thought it was a decent bit of innovation and I’d like to see football pick it up.

At 90 minutes, instead of holding up a board to indicate extra minutes, they should hold up a board that says ‘next goal wins’.

 

and award a penalty to the team which is losing. Make it almost impossible for them to lose.

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think if Masi stays on it'll damage the integrity of the sport. He's pretty clearly made a decision to change the rules for a more exciting finish and his sarcastic reaction to Wolff when asked about it was for me really wrong. If he doesn't go, it'll be pretty hard not to draw the conclusion that his actions were the result of some significant influence by some people very high up in F1.

Your description of a sport changed to appeal to the water cooler crowd sounds horribly like the Premier League to me.

 

The irony is what was exciting about the finish? It was the televisual equivalent of watching a bloke shooting fish in a barrel. 

[BOF]

2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Personally, I thought it was a decent bit of innovation and I’d like to see football pick it up.

At 90 minutes, instead of holding up a board to indicate extra minutes, they should hold up a board that says ‘next goal wins’.

Or hold up a board that shows the scoreline to be something completely different to what both teams and all the fans actually thought it was.

[Straggler]

58 minutes ago, Djemba_Villan said:

I think my point is that the people questioning it are fans already, who regularly get annoyed by these sorts of incidents. But they have potentially gained a far broader viewership. It was pure drama to a layman newcomer. The ‘damage’ will be forgotten soon by many - like most things. (Even in football no real measurable material damage has actually been caused by the breakout league, examples of corruption, poor isolated decisions etc.)
 

Not agreeing with it morally but it’s probably how the new owners and also the teams envisage growth of the sport. 

I really don't think that works.  Both my sons were watching (8 and 15 years old).  Neither are anything more than very casual viewers having watched maybe 6/7 races in their lives.  Neither really understands the rules, but both felt the injustice of what they saw.  They are the definition of the layman newcomer and they were both put off by that last lap.  Drive to Survive has done more for the popularity of F1 than anything that has actually happened on the track.  If they want manufactured drama, let Netflix Kardashian the crap out of it on the telly and keep the marketing team out of the stewards room.

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, sidcow said:

The irony is what was exciting about the finish? It was the televisual equivalent of watching a bloke shooting fish in a barrel. 

The only part I found exciting was when Lewis got back alongside Max and I genuinely thought for a second he might re-overtake him.

[BOF]

1 hour ago, Djemba_Villan said:

But they have potentially gained a far broader viewership. It was pure drama to a layman newcomer.

I doubt it. They've got a Monday headline, and not necessarily one that wll age beneficially for them.

1 hour ago, Djemba_Villan said:

The ‘damage’ will be forgotten soon by many - like most things.

If by 'damage' we include the constructors and engine manufacturers potentially questioning whether their investment into the sport will no longer be rewarded on merit but instead on the whim of a lunatic at the controls, then you can be sure the likes of Volkswagen and Porsche will be looking on with great interest at their rumoured interest from 2025/6 onwards, and much of the damage may even be completely invisible. How do you even quantify an intangible loss like a potential constructor walking away.

1 hour ago, Djemba_Villan said:

Not agreeing with it morally but it’s probably how the new owners and also the teams envisage growth of the sport. 

Whatever about the new owners. I had grave doubts about the motives of the owners as soon as Chase Carey's Liberty took over. I'm just glad we don't have sprinkler systems, long laps and jumps. Yet.

It's certainly not how any racing team envisages their participation in a sport though. But I'm repeating myself now. We'll see what happens next. Or maybe we won't. I suspect a lot of it; as has always been the case with F1; will happen behind very closed doors.

[The Fun Factory]

For someone who is a casual observer at best it just seemed a very contrived way to end the season. 

[tinker]

The championship wasnt won it was awarded . Thread title should now be "The formula 1 awards ceremony"

[BOF]

I did like the conspiracy theory that Red Bull brought Perez in 'to retire' because they'd deliberately filled him light at the start so he would have the speed to upset Lewis during the race (and he therefore wouldn't have made it to the end). The gas thing (pun intended) is that kind of shenanigans has happened in motor sport in the past so it can't even be completely discounted.

Anyone new to motorsport should check out the stuff car mechanic and designer Smokey Yunick used to get up to in Indycar. They ended up hiring him because he was a **** nightmare

Three examples. He raced a 7/8ths scale car. Filled the hollow chassis with steelies to pass weight and then emptied them on the track once the race begun. And got around a fuel capacity limitation by having a mahoosive fuel line from the tank to the engine (the tank size was regulated).

[foreveryoung]

Masi would have known Max being on newer tyres would have won the race with just 1 lap to go (which he agreed to do with the help of Horner on the radio), which is why it wasn't the right way to end it. As fans are saying, he gave Max the win, no excuses.

[Genie]

I can only assume Masi thought that finishing the race/season/championship behind the safety car wasn’t good enough so felt he had to engineer a scenario with some racing. 

It backfired massively.

[foreveryoung]

20 minutes ago, Genie said:

I can only assume Masi thought that finishing the race/season/championship behind the safety car wasn’t good enough so felt he had to engineer a scenario with some racing. 

It backfired massively.

He had Christian Horner in his ear, who convinced him to do 1 more lap, which is why some think he made the decision.

[mykeyb]

Deleted, probably too soon.

Edited December 14, 2021 by mykeyb
Too soon

[Jimzk5]

So the FIA said there Is no precedent for shortening a race when Mercedes asked for a count back lap?

Didn't they have 2 laps behind a safety car in spa and classify that as a race?

F1 is a farce now, 25 years a fan and I give up with it when the rules can be decided by someone who wants to create a TV show not a sport.

[foreveryoung]

Lewis Hamilton knighted today, fair play for what he has achieved.

What I don't understand is someone who constantly slams the establishment for all it's worth, has now become a member of it, no questions asked.

[Sam-AVFC]

26 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Lewis Hamilton knighted today, fair play for what he has achieved.

What I don't understand is someone who constantly slams the establishment for all it's worth, has now become a member of it, no questions asked.

It's not like it gives him a seat in the Lords to undemocratically influence policy. It's an (admittedly archaic) recognition of being the most successful F1 driver in history.

Also, I thought he mostly spoke out about human rights abuses, racism and climate change? Not sure what these have to do with "the establishment" unless you accept those in power in this country are intrinsically linked to all three.

I'm not surprised he'd want to accept it. His whole career he has got absolutely battered by compatriots whatever he does and, even for someone so successful, he probably felt a little vindicated getting recognition.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Sam-AVFC