Don_Simon Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, villa4europe said: difference being we dont have our livelihood linked to it... even ignoring the career part what kind of bonus / remuneration do you think he / his team / lewis lost yesterday? im surprised the reaction to "we went car racing" wasnt way worse Agree with all of this. I'd have absolutely lost my shit at Masi's "this is motor racing" comment. Which I guess is why there were zero Merc interviews post-race. Which, again, is why i was confused by Zatman's comment about Wolff's behaviour today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 13, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 10 hours ago, Genie said: I’m imagining them all in a snake like this, all lapped cars could have pulled out and over taken the safety car couldn’t they? Unless the snake was unusually long and spread out? The cars are meant to unload themselves and then do a full lap and join the back of the queue. Plus it was right at the end of the penultimate lap so there was a chance that even if they hadn’t done that, they still wouldn’t have had time to get the safety car in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Don_Simon said: What behaviour today? I saw a five second clip of him losing his shit, which we all do when Villa are wronged, but what else did he do? Wasn't he asking for no safety car during the race as well. Apparently he also refused to shake Red Bull hands at the end and at least Hamilton showed respect even if you can tell he was fuming inside Its not Red Bull fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 36 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said: I think Toto dealt with it in a fairly professional manner Me too, I really think I’d have called him a **** cheating rocket polisher over the radio. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, Zatman said: Wasn't he asking for no safety car during the race as well. Apparently he also refused to shake Red Bull hands at the end and at least Hamilton showed respect even if you can tell he was fuming inside Its not Red Bull fault It was not RB fault but Horner only wanted to shake Toto's hand as a delaying tactic, might have tried to keep him talking instead of letting him lodge the appeal on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said: It was not RB fault but Horner only wanted to shake Toto's hand as a delaying tactic, might have tried to keep him talking instead of letting him lodge the appeal on time. Horner is a smug clearing in the woods as well 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 As for what happens now its hard to take the title from Verstappen since he didnt do anything wrong. The only option for the FIA or court is probably to call the race as it happened or declare it null and void Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Zatman said: Horner is a smug clearing in the woods as well Yes, he was also applying the pressure on Masi “we just need 1 racing lap” as he knew it was like taking sweets from a baby due to the extremely fortunate pit stop they got. Horner knows the officials royally **** that ending up but hasn’t said a word, in fact he said they made the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Zatman said: As for what happens now its hard to take the title from Verstappen since he didnt do anything wrong. The only option for the FIA or court is probably to call the race as it happened or declare it null and void I think they’d have to say the restart wasn’t legal. There wasn’t time to do it properly and the race would have finished behind the safety car. The result is the standings for the lap before behind the safety car. That’s my honest opinion, not a #teamlewis opinion. Masi should be sacked and and the FIA fined or at the bare minimum apologise to the teams and the fans for creating a farce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, Genie said: I think they’d have to say the restart wasn’t legal. There wasn’t time to do it properly and the race would have finished behind the safety car. The result is the standings for the lap before behind the safety car. That’s my honest opinion, not a #teamlewis opinion. Masi should be sacked and and the FIA fined or at the bare minimum apologise to the teams and the fans for creating a farce. This is the result has it should have been and would comform to the FIA rules and regs. You cannot fanny about with rules at will, Masi is either bent or he just got flustered under the pressure and did what he thought was right for all concerned, pure incompetence under pressure for me. They will let it stand and compensate Mercedes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said: They will let it stand and compensate Mercedes. The other issue is Lewis, will he want to take his own legal action? He’s been robbed of being the outright most successful F1 champion of all time. He would probably have retired off the back of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 13, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, Zatman said: As for what happens now its hard to take the title from Verstappen since he didnt do anything wrong. The only option for the FIA or court is probably to call the race as it happened or declare it null and void Lewis Hamilton has had the title taken away from him when he didn't do anything wrong. I don't understand this logic. It's not about a driver or tram doing anything wrong, it's about an illegal restart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Genie said: The other issue is Lewis, will he want to take his own legal action? He’s been robbed of being the outright most successful F1 champion of all time. He would probably have retired off the back of it. Just now, sidcow said: Lewis Hamilton has had the title taken away from him when he didn't do anything wrong. I don't understand this logic. It's not about a driver or tram doing anything wrong, it's about an illegal restart. Max was given an unfair advantage, he obviously took it, Lewis should be fuming and if I'm him, I'm take legal action. Maybe the whole thing was staged in the knowledge that Lewis would probably retire and leave the sport with a dominant driver without competition and now they are left with possibly the most anticipated season ever to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted December 13, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) Paradoxically this is all fantastic for f1....and Lewis Hamilton! Edited December 13, 2021 by Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Nigel said: Paradoxically this is all fantastic for f1....and Lewis Hamilton! I’m not sure, I think a lot of people will have become disillusioned with it all. It’s a bit like VAR meddling in football. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 13, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Nigel said: Paradoxically this is all fantastic for f1....and Lewis Hamilton! I know the "no publicity is bad publicity" line is often trotted out but I don't think it's true at all. Boxing for example had issues with dodgy decisions and accusations of fixing and it's popularity has seen a steady decline for years now. As others have said to be a pure sport the public has to believe there is fair competition or they'll just turn off eventually. F1 has already got a severe problem with lack of competition and predictability of race outcomes, if you add fixing into that many fans will wonder why to bother anymore, some on there have already expressed that sentiment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Straggler Posted December 13, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 13, 2021 Morning all. So I slept on this and am still feeling angry. I had quite a long hiatus from following F1 as frankly I was finding it a bit boring. Over lockdown I watched drive to survive and got back into the drama and began to understand a bunch more of the personalities, so gave this season a chance. And what a season it was to give a chance to. It was brilliant and competitive and edgy, the story to get the last race was one of the most compelling in any sport for a long time. Cards on the table, I do like Lewis, I respect his ability and his longevity, his skills are off the chart, but I'm not a die hard fanboy, I just like the way he drives. Max I like less, again based mainly on the way he drives. I think he drives in a reckless and juvenile way. He is obviously brilliant, but I don't think he understands that other cars don't have to jump out of his way just because he is there. However, the combination of the reckless young talent and the mature elder statesman jousting away at the front of the pack made for thrilling racing. The threat of contact, the speed, the undoubted skill of both drivers, the ebb and flow of the championship lead totally dragged me back into the sport. Then the last race happened, and it was brilliant too. Full of drama and skill, but with 6 laps to go it was clear who was the better driver on the day and which team had the better car. The story had an end, and it had taken a mighty effort of consecutive wins by Lewis to get over the line first. Then a Williams crashes and the cars bunch up behind the safety car and the heart starts racing again, the result is in jeopardy. But as the rules are explained by the commentary team a bit of excitement goes out of me. Chances are the race will finish under the safety car, it is not thrilling, but probably fair, the race had already become a bit of a procession anyway. We even hear Masi say that the lapped cars will not be allowed to go past on the radio. Then with seconds to go on the penultimate lap the rules of the sport change. It is one of my biggest WTF moments in any sport ever. I tuned in to watch 2 generational talents sort out who is the best on the track. I didn't tune in to watch motor sports entertainment produced by Michael Masi. The final lap drama was not 'racing' as Masi tried to make out, it was produced entertainment more akin to an episode of Top Gear with Clarkson sinking an amphibious car totally by accident. If the last lap is what Masi thinks motor racing is really all about then I think he fundamentally misunderstands the sport. There could only be one result after that decision, and it feels artificial. It is a fundamental of any sport that the rules don't change during the competition. I don't know what calculations were going on in the Mercedes garage regarding bringing Lewis in to get new tires, but it can't have included the race director changing the rules for the last lap. I don't care about Red Bull celebrating, they have been chasing this title for years and the pent-up frustration of the perpetual second place must be overwhelming, I can't blame them for letting it out. I don't Blame Toto for feeling robbed and behaving like he has. He has been robbed. Lewis being as calm and respectful as he was after getting out of his car has done nothing but enhance his reputation with me. I have no idea how he managed to be so magnanimous after yesterday's events, and I don't know many people who could be. Me, I still feel that hole in my sporting soul that natural justice was not achieved and the best racer on the day came second. Sometimes a tire bursts, or an engine fails and you move on as that is racing. When a result is twisted thanks to poor officiating, the sting stays a little longer and the stain on the sport takes a little longer to wash out. FWIW I don't think there is any great conspiracy about the decision. I think Masi, under all sorts of pressure, made a poor choice. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyClarke Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Part of me feels sorry for Masi as I expect he would have got battered if the "greatest season ever" finished with the field trundling behind the safety car. That said, it doesn't mean you can just make it up as you go along, this is a major cock up, including the reaction afterwards, they have basically admitted to making it up. I'm sure Verstappen and Horner have both convinced themselves that the title was down to their amazing skills. This is literally the worst title ever, it would be more satisfactory if Verstappen had piled into Hamilton at turn one on lap one. Imagine being the guy who won the title that nobody beyond those around you and the uneducated think that you won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Genie said: I’m not sure, I think a lot of people will have become disillusioned with it all. It’s a bit like VAR meddling in football. Bingo on this one. I was watching with my 2 sons, this is the first season they have watched. My eldest literally asked what the point was of watching the season if this could happen. He walked out of the room before the race finished. He may be back for next season or he may not, but I suspect not. If this race had finished under the normal rules I can guarantee we would have all been counting the days down to the start of next season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Straggler said: Bingo on this one. I was watching with my 2 sons, this is the first season they have watched. My eldest literally asked what the point was of watching the season if this could happen. He walked out of the room before the race finished. He may be back for next season or he may not, but I suspect not. If this race had finished under the normal rules I can guarantee we would have all been counting the days down to the start of next season. Similar story, my lad (11) really got into F1 the last half a dozen races and was really looking forward to the finale. He was really angry with the outcome and said what a waste of time it was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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