Birmingham Stabbing Attacks

[Mandy Lifeboats]

It makes me laugh when people talk about prison being a holiday camp.  During lock-down we were asked to stay in our own home for 23 hours a day and only pop out to the shops when absolutely necessary.  Large numbers of the population were unable to do that.    And that was without the peril of other occupants in the house who are threatening to stab you with a sharpened tooth brush if you don't hand over your supper.     

[Vive_La_Villa]

Just now, Mandy Lifeboats said:

It makes me laugh when people talk about prison being a holiday camp.  During lock-down we were asked to stay in our own home for 23 hours a day and only pop out to the shops when absolutely necessary.  Large numbers of the population were unable to do that.    And that was without the peril of other occupants in the house who are threatening to stab you with a sharpened tooth brush if you don't hand over your supper.     

They even get supper! 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

They even get supper! 

But the choice of wines is really limited.  They don't have dessert wines and the Chablis is never a good vintage.   Its hell.    

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

2 hours ago, stuart_75 said:

If that's the case then judges don't make a habit of handing them out very often.

It's very difficult to get a full term sentence laid down.  There are not that many at all,  maybe 20-30 from memory in the UK.

It is better all round to give a minimum of eg for the Birmingham knife attacker I would give him 39 years minimum.  There is no way it will still be 39 years,  he will get extra time for something and it's up to the courts if he ever gets out anyway.

+ Earliest release is 66 years old after spending 40 years inside.  Doubtful to get to the end,  either mentally or physically,  he just wont make it out.

Always give them a chink of false hope,  this is far worse than death so always do that.

You have limited control on full term prisoners unless you spend millions.(As in you cant punish them by giving extra time to be served) 

[lapal_fan]

I always like the public's quick solution is "throw em in prison and throw the key away", or "Make it so they doe wanna gew back in.. it's a holly-di camp ay it?"

but then you offer ideas like "If we educate the prisoners they are much less likely to re-offend" etc etc 

and the public then agrees.  

People be stupid.  

[mjmooney]

I can just see it now. Low IQ disturbed kid with a horrible life on a sink estate smokes some crack and feels enough rage to go and stab somebody. "But wait!", he thinks, "Let me consider the possible outcomes of this action... it's statistically likely that this will result in my arrest and imprisonment, and I'm led to believe that prisons are quite unpleasant places. Therefore, on second thoughts, I think I'll stay at home and help my mum with the washing up". 

Somehow I don't think it works like that. 

[Chindie]

Nah, he'll think 'life's shit, but prison... Prison is like heaven!' *Stab stab stab*

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

It makes me laugh when people talk about prison being a holiday camp.  During lock-down we were asked to stay in our own home for 23 hours a day and only pop out to the shops when absolutely necessary.  Large numbers of the population were unable to do that.    And that was without the peril of other occupants in the house who are threatening to stab you with a sharpened tooth brush if you don't hand over your supper.     

I think it depends on an individuals circumstances. Obviously for most people prison would be horrific, I’ve been up close to this for the first time this year as my brother was sentenced to 18 months in March.

And there’s two ways of looking at it, for him and most people it’s been horrendous, 23.5 hour lockdown in the cell since April.

But, on the flip side, he’s in a room with a TV with freeview, a telephone he can use at will it seems and a wet room / shower thing en-suite.

If you offer that to someone who’s alternative is a life on the streets or sofa hopping and it suddenly becomes palatable I guess.

[chrisp65]

There are definitely people in prison as a life choice because ‘outside’ is just too chaotic and dangerous for them. For that to be possible, is a terrible indictment of life on the outside for some people where so much support and shelter has been stripped away. The way to fix that problem, is not to make prison more awful than life outside prison. Prison is being used as a dumping ground and care home for people too inconvenient to look after on the outside.

For some, its a genuine opportunity to have a think, press reset, and try again.

For some, it will always be a career choice and a risk from their career that they are willing to take. 

There are 80,000 in prison, they are not all the same, one size will not fit all.

 

 

 

 

[Xela]

 

[PussEKatt]

22 hours ago, mjmooney said:

I can just see it now. Low IQ disturbed kid with a horrible life on a sink estate smokes some crack and feels enough rage to go and stab somebody. "But wait!", he thinks, "Let me consider the possible outcomes of this action... it's statistically likely that this will result in my arrest and imprisonment, and I'm led to believe that prisons are quite unpleasant places. Therefore, on second thoughts, I think I'll stay at home and help my mum with the washing up". 

Somehow I don't think it works like that. 

IMHO it should be like this.Not everyone goes to prison but for those that do it should be a bad enough experiance that they dont want to go back and do that again.

[Davkaus]

21 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

IMHO it should be like this.Not everyone goes to prison but for those that do it should be a bad enough experiance that they dont want to go back and do that again.

Very few people want to go to prison. You're going to need some evidence that worse conditions in prison have any impact on crime.

People still commit crime when the death penalty is on the books. People still committed crime when we had literal dungeons.

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, PussEKatt said:

IMHO it should be like this.Not everyone goes to prison but for those that do it should be a bad enough experiance that they dont want to go back and do that again.

You completely missed my point. It doesn't matter how tough you make prison. People like that don't think rationally. 

[Demitri_C]

If you look at the states of prisons like south africa now thats hell on earth.

Dont think many people would want to go there if our prisons were like that

[choffer]

5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

If you look at the states of prisons like south africa now thats hell on earth.

Dont think many people would want to go there if our prisons were like that

I've been in The Scrubs. Butlins it aint.

[Sam-AVFC]

5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

If you look at the states of prisons like south africa now thats hell on earth.

Dont think many people would want to go there if our prisons were like that

Yet South Africa's incarceration rates are more than double ours.

[LondonLax]

37 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Yet South Africa's incarceration rates are more than double ours.

And the places with the nicest prisons have the lowest rates of reoffending (like Norway). 

Life can be funny sometimes. 

[chrisp65]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

If you look at the states of prisons like south africa now thats hell on earth.

Dont think many people would want to go there if our prisons were like that

So, I guess with that logic, their prisons must be empty?

[Davkaus]

Facts and logic don't work with some people. It's all outrage and "they've got 3 square meals a day and Playstations. Hanging's too good for them". 

**** love the South Africa example though. Fantastic own goal.

[Xela]

3 hours ago, choffer said:

I've been in The Scrubs. Butlins it aint.

Better?

I've been to Butlns Minehead and it was grim!