bickster Posted September 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, Xela said: Better? I've been to Butlns Minehead and it was grim! Holiday camp compared to Pontins Southport 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted September 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Xela said: Better? I've been to Butlns Minehead and it was grim! Worse. On a par with Pontins Prestatyn. Yes, it's really that bad. Edited September 9, 2020 by choffer Rats! Bicks beat me to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Davkaus said: Facts and logic don't work with some people. It's all outrage and "they've got 3 square meals a day and Playstations. Hanging's too good for them". **** love the South Africa example though. Fantastic own goal. It really isnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Just now, Demitri_C said: It really isnt Go on then, explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: So, I guess with that logic, their prisons must be empty? Google is your friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Go on then, explain. Explain what? You said its a own goal i dont agree. Edited September 9, 2020 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Explain what? You said its a own goal i dint agree. 6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Google is your friend My Google says your Google is full of bollocks. I wish that I could say that this was an isolated incident. South Africa: Population, 57.8m, 154,000 England and Wales, Population: 56 million, Prison population: 79,433 https://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison-population-total?field_region_taxonomy_tid=All They have a population only slightly bigger than ours, and a prison population of around twice ours. Please, tell me more about how the conditions of South African prisons would help deter crime. Edited September 9, 2020 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: My Google says your Google is full of bollocks. I wish that I could say that this was an isolated incident. South Africa: Population, 57.8m, 154,000 UK, Population: 66.6 million, Prison population: 79,433 https://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison-population-total?field_region_taxonomy_tid=All They have a population 10% lower than ours, and a prison population of over twice ours. Please, tell me more about how the conditions of South African prisons would help deter crime. Look at the povety in south Africa and the way of life for many people. Some reoffenders may not have a choice due to having nothing. London has povety yes but not the kevel of what people there have. Massive gang problems there also. Im not full of "bollocks" please stop being a baby and have a adult Conversation without the crappy digs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Im not full of "bollocks" please stop being a baby and have a adult Conversation without the crappy digs Back up your argument with anything that amounts to facts or evidence then. There is absolutely no correlation between prison conditions and incarceration rate. Someone correctly mentioned Scandinavia on the previous page. Sweden, population of 10m, prison population of 6k. Norway, population of 5.5 million, prison population of 3.2k Neither countries well known for their hellish prison experiences. China, 1.7m people in prison. They're not well known for being holiday camps. Edited September 9, 2020 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Back up your argument with anything that amounts to facts or evidence then. There is absolutely no correlation between prison conditions and incarceration rate. Someone correctly mentioned Scandinavia on the previous page. Sweden, population of 10m, prison population of 6k. Norway, population of 5.5 million, prison population of 3.2k Neither countries well known for their hellish prison experiences. China, 1.7m people in prison. They're not well known for being holiday camps. Why you throwing random countries into this debate? What has this got to do with jail conditions in south africa? Your theowing numbers out there but have you a analysed why they might be re offending? Why not throw brazil or Argentina whike your at it? Have you seen ross kemps documentary on south africa gangs? The prison conditions looked horrific. I was basing it on a opinion from what i have seen iof several prisons over there. Did i look at the population figures? Nope You chose to question my opinion (which isnt wrong by the way) you dont know it wouldnt work here just as much as i dont know if it would unless it happened - which wont so makes this conversation pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) Well **** it mate, if you've got an ill-informed hunch based on Ross Kemp on Gangs, we're done here. Who needs discussion, Dem for Minister for Justice. Get South African Prisons Done. I'll ask you one final question, in an attempt to make you consider whether you could possibly be wrong, @Demitri_C. why on earth would poor prison conditions deter crime when the death penalty doesn't? Edited September 9, 2020 by Davkaus 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 58 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Google is your friend Google tells me your own example proved you wrong. Worse prisons, twice as many people in there. You really shouldn’t be watching Ross Kemp telly programmes for your ideas on reducing offending behaviour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 12 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Google tells me your own example proved you wrong. Worse prisons, twice as many people in there. You really shouldn’t be watching Ross Kemp telly programmes for your ideas on reducing offending behaviour. Hasnt been tried here though so you cant say its a failure unless attempted. With anyone if it fails in one country it doesnt neccesarily mean it will fail here. 13 hours ago, Davkaus said: Well **** it mate, if you've got an ill-informed hunch based on Ross Kemp on Gangs, we're done here. Who needs discussion, Dem for Minister for Justice. Get South African Prisons Done. I'll ask you one final question, in an attempt to make you consider whether you could possibly be wrong, @Demitri_C. why on earth would poor prison conditions deter crime when the death penalty doesn't? Your asking me a impossible question that even you cant unless your a criminal. Only they know the answer why they re offend. You can throw as many statistics numbers etc. But only the person who re offends knows why they still went ahead and did the crime knowing death sentence etc would be punishment. Not even gonna respond with your childish first paragraph. Your a grown man spitting your toys out the pram again because you dont agree with my opinion. Im pretty much done with this conversation as you clearly cant debate without childish digs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Pot meet kettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Pot meet kettle. Yawn go back to bed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Hasnt been tried here though so you cant say its a failure unless attempted. But *what* hasn't been attempted? I haven't watched Ross Kemp on Gangs, but I'm assuming that prison gangs are the subject matter, no? Presumably you're not arguing that the government should create several violent prison gangs to endanger the lives of inmates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Just now, HanoiVillan said: But *what* hasn't been attempted? I haven't watched Ross Kemp on Gangs, but I'm assuming that prison gangs are the subject matter, no? Presumably you're not arguing that the government should create several violent prison gangs to endanger the lives of inmates? Nope never suggested that. Just the conditions of the prisons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Nope never suggested that. Just the conditions of the prisons I think you need to read more about the history of crime and punishment in this country. We used to deport people to Australia, on a one-way journey with a very high chance of death en route, for crimes as trivial as picking apples from orchards, and it didn't mean the end of crime. I really think you should reconsider this 'horrible prisons would mean fewer prisoners' argument. Looking at the list of countries by their incarceration rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate) suggests there is almost certainly no connection. I certainly doubt that El Salvador and Turkmenistan (2nd and 3rd on the list) are known for being soft touch, namby-pamby liberals in how they run their prisons. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Just now, HanoiVillan said: I think you need to read more about the history of crime and punishment in this country. We used to deport people to Australia, on a one-way journey with a very high chance of death en route, for crimes as trivial as picking apples from orchards, and it didn't mean the end of crime. I really think you should reconsider this 'horrible prisons would mean fewer prisoners' argument. Looking at the list of countries by their incarceration rate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate) suggests there is almost certainly no connection. I certainly doubt that El Salvador and Turkmenistan (2nd and 3rd on the list) are known for being soft touch, namby-pamby liberals in how they run their prisons. Ill give that a read later mate. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Ill give that a read later mate. Thanks No worries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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