Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 11 hours ago, Brumstopdogs said: Great skill before the finish but that's a very lucky finish Not to take anything away from the lad, sounds like he's absolutely tearing it up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 It was bad business at the time and it gets worse by the week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 4 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: It was bad business at the time and it gets worse by the week. This. Im all for the model of selling young players to pay for expensive signings but f*** me, don’t go and sell a player who is good enough to play for us and will probably get snapped up by a club we’re competing with. Nobody knows the buy back clause, but if it’s what everybody says it is, it’s a monstrosity of a mistake from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 If we've got an option to buy back then it's perfectly fine business. It's just a loan twisted to help with FFP. Nobody would be batting an eyelid if we'd loaned him out. They'd be saying how brilliant a decision it was 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) Selling this phenomenal talent for £5m then buying Rogers for £10m 6 months later, potentially £16m if the add ons are met (they probably won't be), is just totally bizarre. Philogene clearly has far more talent and a higher ceiling. Some of our actions recently have really irritated me. Edited February 14 by Leeroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV82 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: If we've got an option to buy back then it's perfectly fine business. It's just a loan twisted to help with FFP. Nobody would be batting an eyelid if we'd loaned him out. They'd be saying how brilliant a decision it was There does seem to be a lot of smoke around 'if Hull City get promoted' and you know the saying.. It's not unlikely we start next season wanting to get rid of Archer while watching on with jealousy as someone else signs Philogene for 20m+ but equally it's not out of this world to imagine the clause being bullshit, Hull making it through the play-offs or us simply matching any bid for him if they don't get promoted. What we can confidently say is that Emery rates him and we'll do whatever it takes to have him back in claret & blue in the summer if it works financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, sidcow said: Yeah, it's pretty shit basically. It's not shit, but it's an own goal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 But I dont think paying someone 10m to have a top talent for 12 months is good business even if it does exist? Yes I know, amortisation, new 5 year deal, all that bollocks. It's still money out the door whilst fans are getting fleeced more than ever and we're being told money isn't there for out the pitch necessaties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 8 minutes ago, Leeroy said: Selling this phenomenal talent for £5m then buying Rogers for £10m 6 months later, potentially £16m if the add ons are met (they probably won't be), is just totally bizarre. Philogene clearly has far more talent and a higher ceiling. Some of our actions recently have really irritated me. I doubt you've watched either Rogers or Philogene for any real amount of time to be able to conclude Philogene "clearly has far more talent and a higher ceiling". Football teams have whole departments dedicated to scouting and analytics for a reason. Sure, they may get it wrong from time to time or players may not work out at a certain club, but they'll know a shed load more about both players than anyone on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 What I don’t get is what made Archer and Ramsey worth £20m and £15m respectively with easily attainable buyback conditions but then Philogene only £5m with conditions (allegedly) unlikely to be met? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Might block his name from appearing on social media for me, hurting my soul seeing all the reviews he's getting. Out of that crop of young players he was always the one I had the highest hopes for/enjoyed watching the most. Would love to see him come back eventually. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 5 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: What I don’t get is what made Archer and Ramsey worth £20m and £15m respectively with easily attainable buyback conditions but then Philogene only £5m with conditions (allegedly) unlikely to be met? Selling to Premier League clubs rather than Championship, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 6 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: What I don’t get is what made Archer and Ramsey worth £20m and £15m respectively with easily attainable buyback conditions but then Philogene only £5m with conditions (allegedly) unlikely to be met? They went to Premier League clubs and only Hull wanted Philogene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Waring Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 You can only sign one Philogene or Summerville. Who you going for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 18 minutes ago, bobzy said: I doubt you've watched either Rogers or Philogene for any real amount of time to be able to conclude Philogene "clearly has far more talent and a higher ceiling". Football teams have whole departments dedicated to scouting and analytics for a reason. Sure, they may get it wrong from time to time or players may not work out at a certain club, but they'll know a shed load more about both players than anyone on here. Rogers was very highly rated as a 16/17 year old, when he went to City there were high hopes for him, but 5 years later he hasn't performed at any significant level except maybe his spell at Lincoln in League 1 and this season in the EFL Cup mainly against lower league teams. He had a pretty dismal loan spell with Bournemouth and Blackpool in the Championship and his numbers this year for Boro were also well below par for a forward player given he had well over 1,000 minutes of playing time. Both Boro and City fans have said that his likely future belonged in the Championship. It's not all about stats, some players don't have great stats but are incredible footballers, but it's pretty obvious that Rogers is a real punt. We'd have been better off keeping Philogene and not buying Rogers. I feel pretty confident in saying I'll be right when we look back in a few years and see the careers of both players. Of course I'll hold my hands up if I'm wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 14 minutes ago, Zatman said: They went to Premier League clubs and only Hull wanted Philogene But why put in the same division buyback condition? (If true). Makes no sense and I’m sure it wouldn’t have been a deal breaker for Hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 44 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: But I dont think paying someone 10m to have a top talent for 12 months is good business even if it does exist? In isolation no. But if we do this with 10 young players, and we only want one of them back, then we've generated £50m from selling those players with buy back options and only spent £10m of that on the one player we want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 21 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said: Philogene or Summerville. Who you going for? Jimmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 47 minutes ago, Zatman said: They went to Premier League clubs and only Hull wanted Philogene which seems to be a point that has been missed this potentially world class talent that we somehow gave away because our scouts and coaches couldn't see what he is was only wanted by Hull... personally I don't think you can judge whether or not its a mistake until we see what happens next, even if we cant activate any buy back clause there's still no reason why we cant bring him back, it'll just cost us more, if he ends up a £40m man city player next season then we've obviously **** up, if he ends a £15m crystal palace player then the jury will still be out its pointless trying to compare him with what we have and what we're doing as the jump in quality between the leagues is so big, he left to play games, he's playing them and playing well, that doesn't make him better than the Italian and French international players we have, I think he would have played more than tim has but the suggestion that if we'd have kept him he'd be having a better season than zaniolo and we'd be higher up the table is pure speculation that adds nothing but negativity to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) The "only in the same league" bollocks came from the Hull side when they signed him. And they didn't say ONLY. They said there's a buy back clause of 15m if we're in the same league. They didn't say whether there was or wasn't one if they're not in the same league, nor how much it was. I'd be amazed if we gave away the control of Philogene, given that's exactly what Monchi said we didn't do. Leaving a condition that puts his future out of our control doesn't sound like it aligns with our plans. Especially when the fee was 5m. Edited February 14 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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