Carney Chukwuemeka

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think he's the wrong midfielder for what we need right now unfortunately - he's one that would benefit greatly if we had a defensive midfielder that could hold the middle of the park.

McGinn is the problem IMO, OBE. We need someone quicker, fitter, sharper of the mind and with better close control to play as a box-to-box. Look at how well the youngsters do with Iroegbunam in that role - McGinn does not offer any of those things with any regularity or consistency. 

[OutByEaster?]

8 minutes ago, lexicon said:

McGinn is the problem IMO, OBE. We need someone quicker, fitter, sharper of the mind and with better close control to play as a box-to-box. Look at how well the youngsters do with Iroegbunam in that role - McGinn does not offer any of those things with any regularity or consistency. 

McGinn played as the lead midfielder yesterday - as the ten - he's alright at that and decent as an eight, he just can't play as a six. I think we either need two eights and a six or two sixes and an eight. At the moment I think Luiz can play as a six and McGinn as an eight, but I don't think there's anyone that's pushing them for a place or even showing as a big favourite for the other position.

In terms of midfielders who aren't about goals, who aren't tens, we've pretty much got McGinn, Luiz, Sanson and Ramsey with Young for emergencies and Iroegbanum the only one coming through from the youth side. Without Ramsey for six weeks and with Sanson's position unclear we're horrifically thin - we don't know when Luiz will be back and at some point soon McGinn will pick up his fifth booking - Chukwuemeka isn't in that conversation for me - right now he plays as a ten in front of a midfield pair and where we've tried to play with two tens, even at U23 level with the quality of Chukwuemeka and Aaron Ramsey it hasn't really worked.

For Chukwuemeka to be a success we need to add a player next to Luiz and use Carney where McGinn played yesterday - it's McGinn's spot he's after - but we're a mile away from being able to drop McGinn. 

 

[lexicon]

3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

McGinn played as the lead midfielder yesterday - as the ten - he's alright at that and decent as an eight, he just can't play as a six. I think we either need two eights and a six or two sixes and an eight. At the moment I think Luiz can play as a six and McGinn as an eight, but I don't think there's anyone that's pushing them for a place or even showing as a big favourite for the other position.

In terms of midfielders who aren't about goals, who aren't tens, we've pretty much got McGinn, Luiz, Sanson and Ramsey with Young for emergencies and Iroegbanum the only one coming through from the youth side. Without Ramsey for six weeks and with Sanson's position unclear we're horrifically thin - we don't know when Luiz will be back and at some point soon McGinn will pick up his fifth booking - Chukwuemeka isn't in that conversation for me - right now he plays as a ten in front of a midfield pair and where we've tried to play with two tens, even at U23 level with the quality of Chukwuemeka and Aaron Ramsey it hasn't really worked.

For Chukwuemeka to be a success we need to add a player next to Luiz and use Carney where McGinn played yesterday - it's McGinn's spot he's after - but we're a mile away from being able to drop McGinn. 

I don't think he's proven himself to be premier league class for over 2 and a bit seasons now and I'm not surprised that Sanson has been getting pissed off watching his performances from the bench. If we want to be a team pushing for Europe, we need better than that and I think that Luiz and Sanson is a far stronger base to allow Carney or one of the Ramseys to do their thing. 

[Farlz]

I don’t have the Athletic so can’t confirm it but apparently the new Gregg Evans article states Carney won’t sign a new contract currently due to lack of playing time or along those lines at least.

I expect everything will eventually turn out fine but we absolutely can’t mess this one up.  

[samjp26]

34 minutes ago, Farlz said:

I don’t have the Athletic so can’t confirm it but apparently the new Gregg Evans article states Carney won’t sign a new contract currently due to lack of playing time or along those lines at least.

I expect everything will eventually turn out fine but we absolutely can’t mess this one up.  

Think it’s more to do with the fact that there any many other clubs, here and abroad, ready to snap him up and offer him more playing time rather than him having a problem with how we have brought him through. There are just better opportunities for him elsewhere.

[villa4europe]

was in the team, got injured, just about finished recovering played some minutes for the reserves and then went straight back in to the squad

id take it with a massive pinch of salt

[Woody1000]

At the time on Sunday, I actually felt that Dean made the right call to bring on Young to replace Ramsey on Sunday, more to protect Carne’s from a potential schooling at the hands of Soucek and Rice, but I actually think we missed a trick there.

I can understand him starting to get frustrated if the word coming out is true. With the up and down performance of our midfield this season, I am a little surprised he hasn’t seen a bit more action.

 

[samjp26]

13 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

was in the team, got injured, just about finished recovering played some minutes for the reserves and then went straight back in to the squad

id take it with a massive pinch of salt

Exactly + the fact we signed his brother also, the club clearly have a great relationship with the family. However, if better opportunities are on the horizon you really can’t blame him if he makes a move. “It’s not you, it’s me” vibes. He’s a very talented young lad and just as we have seen our own academy pinching players, the same can easily happen to us. Hopefully not though!

[useless]

Chukwuemeka just wants to play football, in pre-season he kept posting  on social media about how he missed playing, and if you watch him playing for our U23s this season you can see how happy he is to be playing and how much he enjoys it, there's no air about him of thinking that he's too good for the U23s now that he's played for the first team and is part of the senior squad.

So I can see why he's frustrated, because he's not playing as much football as he was last season, but he's doing incredibly well to be involved as much with the first team as he is at his age, of course there are examples of players the same age playing more first team football but that's very rare and they aren't playing just because their clubs have decided to give youth a chance, that's part of it, but the players also have to be exremely good to be playing regularly at that age, so as good and as much potential that Chukwuemeka has there's no guarantee that he'd be playing much more elsewhere than he is with us.

I think this feeds into who the next manager is if we decide to make a change, as I'm sure we will want someone with a record of bringing through youth players, as with the amount of investment we're seeing in the academy that's obviously a big part of the club's strategy.

[MaVilla]

On 01/11/2021 at 15:36, lexicon said:

McGinn is the problem IMO, OBE. We need someone quicker, fitter, sharper of the mind and with better close control to play as a box-to-box. Look at how well the youngsters do with Iroegbunam in that role - McGinn does not offer any of those things with any regularity or consistency. 

i agree McGinn just isnt good enough.

However, thats usually garners a similar response to someone questioning Smith, people jump on you.

[MaVilla]

On the note re contract, Carney has 2 years left doesnt he? (roughly 18 months now as half way through season?), we really need to tie him down asap, if he lose him it would be next level idiotic.

[OutByEaster?]

For me, his immediate future needs to go contract and loan.

He needs football to make the step up to the mens game, to build that explosiveness in and develop to match the physicality of this league - he saunters through U23 games on his talent and he can't do that in the Premier league - right now the step is too big for him, a loan gives him an in between stage that he could really do with.

Ramsey's injury throws a bit of a spanner into those works, but right now I don't think he has the intensity to step into our midfield. If we had a strong pair behind him he could get away with it, but we need another grafter to go with McGinn and Luiz to make it work.

 

[Risso]

I’d rather see him in the team, youthful mistakes and all, than see another second of Ashley Young being utterly hopeless and past it.

[villa4europe]

8 minutes ago, Risso said:

I’d rather see him in the team, youthful mistakes and all, than see another second of Ashley Young being utterly hopeless and past it.

very much this

even if carney puts out a 5/10 performance at least you can see some sort of future in it as a silver lining

there is nothing at all positive about ashley young playing CM, waste of a shirt in an already weak unit, he's ross barkley bad in there

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, MaVilla said:

i agree McGinn just isnt good enough.

However, thats usually garners a similar response to someone questioning Smith, people jump on you.

The good thing about the modern age is that there are plenty of statistics and lots of data to help defend your position nowadays - back on VT 20 years back when we couldn't even watch every game unless you went home and away, the bickering was a lot more limited and fiercer 

[tom_avfc]

38 minutes ago, Risso said:

I’d rather see him in the team, youthful mistakes and all, than see another second of Ashley Young being utterly hopeless and past it.

Did you see the stick that Jacob Ramsey was getting and he was playing in a reasonably successful team . There's nothing to suggest that Carney would be an improvement if asked to do what Ashley Young was against a strong West Ham with 10 men for practically the entire second half. Our fan base would be on his back the moment he had a bad game and given that he's not the blood and thunder type midfielder that a lot of our fans are screaming for I'd wager that the accusations of laziness and not getting involved would be almost immediate.

There's a process to getting a player ready for first team football in the Premier League and that to me isn't chucking an 18 year old into an underperforming midfield with no control over any game that we play and expecting him to do anything. A loan would be the best move for him if our other midfielders weren't dropping like flies to be honest.

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, Risso said:

I’d rather see him in the team, youthful mistakes and all, than see another second of Ashley Young being utterly hopeless and past it.

The problem is that he's completely the wrong sort of midfielder for right now - he's a gloriously talented ambler, who isn't great at pressing the ball or defensive duty.

He's exactly the midfielder we need once we fix our midfield, but he's exactly the midfielder we don't need right now.

With Declan Rice and Kalvin Phillips behind him he'd light up the league - not so much if we have Nakamba and McGinn playing as a pair of sixes.

Ashely Youngs experience gets him the nod because there's very little alternative - if we're throwing in a youngster I'd go with Iroegbanum - it's an awful position to find ourselves in.

 

[rodders0223]

If I was him and saw a 36 year old Young getting the nod at a side bottom of the league I'd be off to be honest.

By all accounts he's one of the most talented players in his age bracket.

Like it not. We have to show him we are going to make him a player.

 

We will lose him. I guarantee. He can go to Chelsea and not play games ffs

[Indigo]

The main qualm for me with Young getting on instead of him is that Young isn't and never has been a central midfielder. A cursory glance of Transfermarkt tells me prior to re-joining us he'd played around 70 minutes in that position across the entirety of his career. I appreciate that we were in a no-win situation either way really but I just feel like Young coming on was a bit of a defeatist move as a form of damage limitation and wonder what the harm would have really been in bringing on an inexperienced actual midfielder for another quite inexperienced midfielder as Ramsey is.

[OutByEaster?]

16 minutes ago, Indigo said:

The main qualm for me with Young getting on instead of him is that Young isn't and never has been a central midfielder. A cursory glance of Transfermarkt tells me prior to re-joining us he'd played around 70 minutes in that position across the entirety of his career. I appreciate that we were in a no-win situation either way really but I just feel like Young coming on was a bit of a defeatist move as a form of damage limitation and wonder what the harm would have really been in bringing on an inexperienced actual midfielder for another quite inexperienced midfielder as Ramsey is.

The thing is, when you have Buendia, McGinn, Bailey and Watkins already on the pitch, what you need from your other midfielder is good pressing with positional discipline, and the ability to defend. 

Chukwuemeka has a huge number of qualities, if I had to list his weaknesses, they'd be exactly those.