Generic Virus Thread

[StefanAVFC]

Populism

[NurembergVillan]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

Every time this government has an idea, it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Every time. I don't know how they do it.

[trekka]

Lots of talk of letting households come together for Christmas.  Stating the obvious but I'm just not sure that will be feasible / be a good idea unless we see a sharp drop in cases.  

Is having your Christmas Turkey with the elderly parents and extended family worth the risk?  Even if the cases had significantly dropped off I think I'll be self-isolating for the 2 weeks prior to Christmas if I am to travel back up,  and I'll be encouraging any family member who is allowed to visit my parents to do the same (if they are able).  It's either that or start stocking up on the booze now .

[AVFCDAN]

13 minutes ago, trekka said:

Lots of talk of letting households come together for Christmas.  Stating the obvious but I'm just not sure that will be feasible / be a good idea unless we see a sharp drop in cases.  

People are going to do it regardless though aren't they, we might as well make a plan that assumes people will do it to at least gain some control of it.

If someone is stupid enough to know they are visiting a vulnerable person and take no precautions that's on them really, not much the government can do either way.

[KenjiOgiwara]

I'm finding it so weird serious scientific companies like Moderna and Pfizer are competing publically about vaccine efficiancy when it's obvious it's media shite. Pfizer says 90% effective. Russia says 92% effective (okay Russia aren't credible for toffee, but still), then Moderna says 94% and the week after Pfizer upgrades their effectiveness to 95%, marginally beating Moderna. Just comes across as a bit cringe. 

[Chindie]

Would you like some bat virus with your turkey Nan?

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, AVFCDAN said:

People are going to do it regardless though aren't they, we might as well make a plan that assumes people will do it to at least gain some control of it.

If someone is stupid enough to know they are visiting a vulnerable person and take no precautions that's on them really, not much the government can do either way.

yep agree, you cant control it, it will happen and if they try say that people cant do it then there will be uproar

so put the cape on tell people they can spend 2 days together because you're a wonderful government that can stop the virus for jesus' birthday and then send them all back to lockdown with the knowledge that its their fault and not yours if there is another spike

[sne]

Almost 100 people (96) died here yesterday in the 2nd wave of Covid that we were assured would not happen in Sweden.

That's quite a lot for a country with only 10m population. Just imagine how bad it would have been if that 2nd wave would have come...

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

36 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Would you like some bat virus with your turkey Nan?

The obsession in getting everyone to have a "normal" christmas during a pandemic & in the winter is troublesome to me.

- In other news,  after how many days will these few 100 thousand newly infected people (sacrifices) start to show symptoms,  show up at hospital or die ? I bet it's nowhere near the start of Brexit and overwhelming the hospitals to cover up the ports and trade problems would never happen.

[Genie]

Its the worst possible scenario, large group of family wanting to hug and talk at close quarters for a long period in a small room.

If the government try and put some sensible guidelines around it the loophole finders will share how they are having a business meeting or because they are having their meal on separate plates it doesn't class as a meal and they are hosting 47 people in their 1 bedroom flat.

[HanoiVillan]

I feel like I need to once again remind people that the government ordered mosques to cancel Eid celebrations the night before they were due to happen.

I'm sure 'people are just going to do it anyway' is true of some quantity of people, but I am personally optimistic that if there is a consistent message that people shouldn't mingle with other households in doors, they mostly won't (I know we won't be, unless the situation is significantly improved).

That's not to say it doesn't completely suck of course, but there we go.

[Genie]

If they say it’s not allowed a few people will crack on and do it anyway but probably a small percentage. 
If they allow it with some conditions it’ll be a free for all and much piss being taken.

[HanoiVillan]

LOL

 

[villakram]

19 hours ago, sne said:

Wonder if there is a way to inject mouthwash straight into the body?

They drink it in the northern most climes with very fooked up communities, clean mouth, then get buzz I guess. Obviously, one should be using alcoholic mouthwash, though I guess stuff with loads of chlorine with do something for a time.

[StefanAVFC]

 

[ender4]

19 hours ago, Genie said:

The obvious answer to that question is along the lines of “we can’t even begin to discuss getting crowds into sports venues whilst hundreds are during every day”... yet Bozza has gone to the other extreme. 

Though there is the anomaly of Tier 1/2 areas (pre the current 4 week restrictions) allowing a certain % of people into cinemas, theatres, etc... yet not allowing any people into a large open outdoor space like a football stand.        

I'm sure a lower league teams could allow say 200 people into a 1,000 capacity stadium?

[villakram]

Another piece of research demonstrating no evidence for the efficacy of masks w.r.t. covid19 prevention. This uses actual people, living actual lives, not smoke clouds with "cool" background music on instagram.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

"A total of 3030 participants were randomly assigned to the recommendation to wear masks, and 2994 were assigned to control; 4862 completed the study. Infection with SARS-CoV-2 occurred in 42 participants recommended masks (1.8%) and 53 control participants (2.1%). The between-group difference was −0.3 percentage point (95% CI, −1.2 to 0.4 percentage point; P = 0.38) (odds ratio, 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23]; P = 0.33). Multiple imputation accounting for loss to follow-up yielded similar results. Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection."

 

Of course, this is just a confirmation of the known w.r.t. the flu, https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article.

"Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza."

[TB]

19 minutes ago, villakram said:

Another piece of research demonstrating no evidence for the efficacy of masks w.r.t. covid19 prevention. This uses actual people, living actual lives, not smoke clouds with "cool" background music on instagram.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

"A total of 3030 participants were randomly assigned to the recommendation to wear masks, and 2994 were assigned to control; 4862 completed the study. Infection with SARS-CoV-2 occurred in 42 participants recommended masks (1.8%) and 53 control participants (2.1%). The between-group difference was −0.3 percentage point (95% CI, −1.2 to 0.4 percentage point; P = 0.38) (odds ratio, 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23]; P = 0.33). Multiple imputation accounting for loss to follow-up yielded similar results. Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection."

 

Of course, this is just a confirmation of the known w.r.t. the flu, https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article.

"Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza."

I'm a mere layman (and haven't read the articles), but my immediate reaction to your summary is that it demonstrates no efficiacy for the wearer. I'm not surprised. Even medical staff with top grade PPE and proper training in how to use it get infected.

It would be interesting (but difficult) to measure differences in rates of infection of close contacts of participants and the control group. Non-surgical masks are used so you have less chance of infecting others, not to avoid getting the virus yourself.

 

[NoelVilla]

7 hours ago, sne said:

Almost 100 people (96) died here yesterday in the 2nd wave of Covid that we were assured would not happen in Sweden.

That's quite a lot for a country with only 10m population. Just imagine how bad it would have been if that 2nd wave would have come...

Shut up. Norway, Denmark and Finland will catch us soon.

- Stefan Löfven

[villakram]

3 hours ago, TB said:

I'm a mere layman (and haven't read the articles), but my immediate reaction to your summary is that it demonstrates no efficiacy for the wearer. I'm not surprised. Even medical staff with top grade PPE and proper training in how to use it get infected.

It would be interesting (but difficult) to measure differences in rates of infection of close contacts of participants and the control group. Non-surgical masks are used so you have less chance of infecting others, not to avoid getting the virus yourself.

 

Then explain the ongoing covid case outbreaks in many disparate places with high mask usage. Sub micron virus being blocked by masks with 10s of micron sized pores, sounds legit. 

Perhaps it has something to do with a cold virus peaking in the winter, but what would I know. Think as you are told peon.