KentVillan Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, snowychap said: Have you any evidence that decisions in Italy being made on the basis of age are officially about 'importance to society' rather than one part of a clinical assessment of treatment priorities? There may well be such evidence but might it also be that you're reading something in to it which isn't there? Sure, some people may well find themselves in medical situations that are dissimilar to the vast majority of the population, i.e. I doubt those kinds of people to whom you refer are going to be rocking up at A&E and looking to be placed in the converted OR, on the whole. There are some really quite bizarre leaps here. You appear to have decided upon a (potential though likely) problem - that simple clinical assessment won't be sufficient to properly distribute the available resources - and thought that they then absolutely must find a further way of restricting those resources, taken what may happen to a very small section of the population (i.e. VVIPs) and jumped to the idea that this is what is or would happen across the board in the public health service. That sounds like it's going well beyond "clinical assessment of treatment priorities", no? The concept of "officially" has gone out the window - these doctors have to make judgment calls on the fly. You're focusing too much on one phrase in my post, and not the broader theme about how triage will force very tough ethical decisions on doctors, which will go beyond treatment priorities. I meant "importance to society" very broadly - it could be whether they are of working age, whether they have children, etc. There's no doubt that these kinds of decisions are being forced on doctors in Italy already. Maybe I shouldn't have brought in the VVIP point, although yes it is relevant - the ones I mentioned all receive state-funded healthcare. Edited March 11, 2020 by KentVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Man City Arsenal has now been called off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 The FA will suspend all leagues this week, I bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted March 11, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2020 Around xmas time the place i work at had an outbreak of flu, it passed around most of us that work together and lasted at least two weeks and seemed to come and go. We thought we was passing it back and forth amongst ourselves. I had it and it was the worst case of flu i had ever had and led to a lung infection that eventually went after 2 weeks. I have a strong suspicion that the outbreak started well before the hype did at least in my area. As a side note we have Chinese contractors who have been working on site for 6 months and are from the Wuhan area........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 hours ago, KentVillan said: That sounds like it's going well beyond "clinical assessment of treatment priorities", no? The concept of "officially" has gone out the window - these doctors have to make judgment calls on the fly. Perhaps but I don't think so. Clinical assessment of treatment priorities doesn't mean (or have to mean) a detailed assessment, analysis and comparison of each individual patient against each other. A swingeing and crass assessment that those over a particular age AND those below that age with comorbidities are going to be the ones who are not prioritised (in favour of those who are younger and without those comorbidities) is some kind of clinical assessment, i.e. it's a choice about resources based upon a likelihood of recovery (with those relevant resources). I think it's a leap to be saying that the decision is based upon other reasons as you did. Even if it were so, It doesn't necessarily follow that it will or does happen here. 7 hours ago, KentVillan said: You're focusing too much on one phrase in my post, and not the broader theme about how triage will force very tough ethical decisions on doctors, which will go beyond treatment priorities. No, I'm focussing on the assumption(s) you have made and I'm questioning it/them. 7 hours ago, KentVillan said: I meant "importance to society" very broadly - it could be whether they are of working age, whether they have children, etc. Again. You're making leaps here that are really quite profound and which wouldn't appear to be justified by one tweet (which I also read earlier when the link was either posted here or in someone else's twitter feed) or even a series of similar anecdotes. I think we should leave it there as we're just going round in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 BoE cuts interest rates back down to 0.25%. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 11, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2020 E3, traditionally the premier gaming convention where the entire industry descends on LA for a week, cancelled. This is less of a big deal than it first appears as the event was dying on its arse anyway but looks like its cancelled, which might just do it in entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 11, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2020 Also New Street this morning was obscenely quiet for a Wednesday morning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Seem some articles that North Korea has confirmed 180 dead soldiers and 3700 quarantined. No numbers on regular citizens and the article disappeared. So might be fake. Also some noise coming out of China that the Wuhan recovery is a hoax and that the Xi Jinping visit was simply a publicity stunt. According to "the internet" people are heard shouting from the windows "it's fake, it's fake" I have no idea since I don't speak the language and there are certainly regime critics who would want to spread false information so huge pinch of salt. Don't think there is any doubt that they are running plants and factories on empty just to give the illusion of production going on thou. It would be pretty fantastic if they actually have managed to stop the spread and contain it. Can't see that myself sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 27 minutes ago, snowychap said: BoE cuts interest rates back down to 0.25%. Hopefully stays that way until January when I remortgage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 11, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2020 I really do need to remortgage. Been at the bare rate for about 6 months now as I've not got round to it... Every cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted March 11, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 hours ago, AndyM3000 said: Man City Arsenal has now been called off. 27 minutes ago, snowychap said: BoE cuts interest rates back down to 0.25%. 24 minutes ago, Chindie said: E3, traditionally the premier gaming convention where the entire industry descends on LA for a week, cancelled. This is less of a big deal than it first appears as the event was dying on its arse anyway but looks like its cancelled, which might just do it in entirely. 23 minutes ago, Chindie said: Also New Street this morning was obscenely quiet for a Wednesday morning. 22 minutes ago, sne said: Seem some articles that North Korea has confirmed 180 dead soldiers and 3700 quarantined. No numbers on regular citizens and the article disappeared. So might be fake. Also some noise coming out of China that the Wuhan recovery is a hoax and that the Xi Jinping visit was simply a publicity stunt. According to "the internet" people are heard shouting from the windows "it's fake, it's fake" I have no idea since I don't speak the language and there are certainly regime critics who would want to spread false information so huge pinch of salt. Don't think there is any doubt that they are running plants and factories on empty just to give the illusion of production going on thou. It would be pretty fantastic if they actually have managed to stop the spread and contain it. Can't see that myself sadly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, cyrusr said: The guy in charge of this in Sweden had been dubbed Corona Bob after this lovely chap He's also been sent to Somalia ( I kid you not) for some reason that is 100% damage control. Edited March 11, 2020 by sne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HongKongVillan Posted March 11, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2020 28 minutes ago, sne said: Also some noise coming out of China that the Wuhan recovery is a hoax and that the Xi Jinping visit was simply a publicity stunt. Given the history wont be at all surprise by this. "Rumours" has it Xi wasnt even at Wuhan yesterday even though this was widely reported at state news. Was reading an article re their mortality rate as well, they only include the numbers coming from death rate at hospital, and any deaths at home self quarantined process were not included. Hence why mortality rate doesn't quite correlate to numbers of cremation within Wuhan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Just now, kwoktolai said: Given the history wont be at all surprise by this. "Rumours" has it Xi wasnt even at Wuhan yesterday even though this was widely reported at state news. Was reading an article re their mortality rate as well, they only include the numbers coming from death rate at hospital, and any deaths at home self quarantined process were not included. Hence why mortality rate doesn't quite correlate to numbers of cremation within Wuhan. That sadly would be my guess at what is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Corona doing wonders for the M6 and M5. Flew home from work last night, and into work this morning. Would a cull be such a bad thing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, desensitized43 said: Hopefully stays that way until January when I remortgage! Do we think it’s likely? Similar situation for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I see some cafes are stopping using cups because of this. I suppose its only a matter of time before the pubs have to stop selling pints. The pub industry will be up in arms if this happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 @Risso how you getting on with the home-brew hand gel? I’ve made some today using isopropanol and pure Aloe Gel, but I’m not sure it’s worked properly The Aloe Gel hasn’t really mixed in very well and now it looks like bits of spunk floating about in the alcohol!! I mean it probably still does the job, but not sure if I’m doing something wrong!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: Do we think it’s likely? Similar situation for me I don't think anyone really knows really. We haven't seen anything like this in the modern era (the last 'proper' pandemic being 1918). The rates can't really get any lower so the central banks are running out of road to deal with economic shocks, so if we see issues on the level of 2008 I think we're looking at best at recession and at worst depression. In that case, the rates won't matter too much as people might not have jobs to pay mortgages in any case. I was just trying to lighten the mood that if I still have a job in January my mortgage will at least be cheaper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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