Wesley Moraes

[nick76]

14 minutes ago, Indigo said:

They've both largely flattered to deceive but the reason I'd be more willing to have patience with Wesley rather than Davis is that he's put in performances in the Premier League (Everton, Burnley and Norwich even though the latter was essentially glorified Championship football last season) that Davis has never put in at any level. It's clear there's a player in there, just a matter if he could ever put it together semi-consistently and show that they weren't complete flashes in the pan.

Wes was in a poor team, new to the league, environment, country and language.  

Once he is back and has gained some match fitness (probably by the start of next season) then he can be judged.  

He’ll have none of the above excuses to go by so he needs to deliver then but while some of his performances were poor he still scored in every 1 in 4 games ratio.  Not great but for the above reasons wasn’t bad.  He was frustrating at times but there was a player in there and now he is settled, let’s see...

[KenjiOgiwara]

40 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

So now we are adding other criteria? 

The goal was against Burton. He also had an assist against Bristol City. Not Premier quality. 

1 in 4 vs 0 in 7. 

 

No? You were the one that spesifically added the PL. A competition he never gets starts in. It's like saying a never get to bang hollywood chicks. Yeah no wonder, I don’t live in Hollywood 

You also went from arguing matches to minutes, so if anyone is changing criteria here it's you.

Edited March 11, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

I don’t think Wes is that much better than Davis. I think they’re both pretty pants to be honest. 

To be honest, this. I don't think either are good enough for where we are now, and certainly not for where we want to be.

(Of course, I would be thrilled for either or both of them to prove me wrong).

[HKP90]

5 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

No? You were the one that spesifically added the PL. A competition he never gets starts in. It's like saying a never get to bang hollywood chicks. Yeah no wonder, I don’t live in Hollywood 

He was on the pitch in the league for more than 30 minutes 7 times last season. 3 of which were for more than an hour.  If he can’t make things happen why on earth would you think he merits a start?

He’s been to hollywood, he just went the the s**t bars, vomited on his shoes and came home.

Find a single metric which says Davis should start over Wes. 

 

[The_Steve]

Cannot wait for him to return and prove the doubters wrong

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

34 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

He was on the pitch in the league for more than 30 minutes 7 times last season. 3 of which were for more than an hour.  If he can’t make things happen why on earth would you think he merits a start?

He’s been to hollywood, he just went the the s**t bars, vomited on his shoes and came home.

Find a single metric which says Davis should start over Wes. 

 

Because Wesley never contributed dick either and he got half a season. Fluked a few tap ins. Missed a penalty or two. Very much like any striker would manage in front of Grealish for 6 months. Including Davis. 

And the overrall play Davis contributes a whole lot more than Wesley ever does or will, as a striker. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[sne]

Think it will be unfair to judge him at all this season if he plays. Guy has missed more than a year of football and will be close to a year and a half before he is even close to anything resembling playing form.

[jimmygreaves]

If Davis was Brazilian he would be capped by now..... Discuss.

[sne]

3 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said:

If Davis was Brazilian he would be capped by now..... Discuss.

Not even for their women's team.

[Keyblade]

35 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Because Wesley never contributed dick either and he got half a season. Fluked a few tap ins. Missed a penalty or two. Very much like any striker would manage in front of Grealish for 6 months. Including Davis. 

And the overrall play Davis contributes a whole lot more than Wesley ever does or will, as a striker. 

Grealish only assisted 2 of his 5 goals. It was also in literally the worst PL team still standing from the 19/20 season. Not like he was getting chances on a plate every game. Fluking tap ins is an interesting way of putting it, but also kind of damning of Davis because he can't even do that.

Davis did have the luxury of playing with Grealish as one of the best teams in the Championship though. He has a whopping 2 goals to show for it. Unfortunately he isn't as good at putting the ball in the back of the net, as good as his hold up play 20 yards from goal might be.

For comparison, Benteke, who people regularly lampoon for his goalscoring record and for supposedly being useless and past it has already equaled Davis' entire career goal tally (I'm even throwing in both cup competitions), just this season in just 22 appearances.

[KenjiOgiwara]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Grealish only assisted 2 of his 5 goals. It was also in literally the worst PL team still standing from the 19/20 season. Not like he was getting chances on a plate every game. Fluking tap ins is an interesting way of putting it, but also kind of damning of Davis because he can't even do that.

Davis did have the luxury of playing with Grealish as one of the best teams in the Championship though. He has a whopping 2 goals to show for it. Unfortunately he isn't as good at putting the ball in the back of the net, as good as his hold up play 20 yards from goal might be.

For comparison, Benteke, who people regularly lampoon for his goalscoring record and for supposedly being useless and past it has already equaled Davis' entire career goal tally (I'm even throwing in both cup competitions), just this season in just 22 appearances.

Except it's not. Cause Davis doesn't get a free card to play 6 months straight even when being absolute shite.  An advantage of being brazilian it seems.

[jimmygreaves]

4 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Except it's not. Cause Davis doesn't get a free card to play 6 months straight even when being absolute shite.  An advantage of being brazilian it seems.

Well, possibly more to do with being a £20 million investment by the club and having been signed based on his previous ability.

Edited March 11, 2021 by jimmygreaves

[nick76]

8 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Except it's not. Cause Davis doesn't get a free card to play 6 months straight even when being absolute shite.  An advantage of being brazilian it seems.

Except he did, he played 28 games in one season in the championship....(championship not premier league)....and scored 2 goals.  

Free card....not impacted by new country, new language, new environment...and scored 2 goals, 4 assists in 1,499 minutes....

Not very good!

edit: just checked, those two goals were against Barnsley who were 18th at the time and Burton who were 19th at the time, in a 3-0 win and 4-0 win respectively.

Edited March 11, 2021 by nick76

[avfc1982am]

How funny the comparisons between Wes and Davis are. One, 130 app 40 odd goals and 6 in the prem, champs league, capped by his country. The other.....a few minutes here and there. Even in the championship back in 17/18 with 2 in 28. Only 2 goals in 3 years. Hilarious. 

The other factor in this is Dean Smith. I don't remember him ever dropping Wes for Davis?! Even when Wes was struggling. Surely that tells its own story. 

There is a perfectly good reason why Davis doesn't get more game time.

 

 

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, The_Steve said:

Cannot wait for him to return and prove the doubters wrong

 

Was concerned with thr start of that video but the end highlights he doesn't appear to be very far away at all.

A major step up from the earlier clip of him training.  Another similar level of progression in the next week or two and he could well be on the bench before April.

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

How funny the comparisons between Wes and Davis are. One, 130 app 40 odd goals and 6 in the prem, champs league, capped by his country. The other.....a few minutes here and there. Even in the championship back in 17/18 with 2 in 28. Only 2 goals in 3 years. Hilarious. 

The other factor in this is Dean Smith. I don't remember him ever dropping Wes for Davis?! Even when Wes was struggling. Surely that tells its own story. 

There is a perfectly good reason why Davis doesn't get more game time.

[KenjiOgiwara]

6 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said:

Well, possibly more to do with being a £20 million investment by the club and having been signed based on his previous ability.

What previous ability?

The few goals he had playing in the Belgian league? Better pair him with Samatta then.

But I suspect you're right. He gets a lot of leeway cause we spent a lot of money on  brazilian.

[KenjiOgiwara]

14 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Except he did, he played 28 games in one season in the championship....(championship not premier league)....and scored 2 goals.  

Free card....not impacted by new country, new language, new environment...and scored 2 goals, 4 assists in 1,499 minutes....

Not very good!

I don't see the point of repeating this cause it's clear you write posts before reading. But no. We were talking the PL under Deano. Davis was in a far worse team without confidence under Steve Bruce. Wesley got that role under a team full of confidence under Deano having spent £127 million on new players.

Completely different scenario. And Davis HAD to play due to injuries. Wesley were given total slack. Even when he was utter wank.

So no. You're wrong. Again.

Edited March 11, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I don't see the point of repeating this cause it's clear you write posts before reading. But no. We were talking the PL under Deano. Davis was in a far worse team without confidence under Steve Bruce. Wesley got that roke under a team full of confidence under Deano havong spent £127 million.

Completely different scenario. And Davis HAD to play due to injuries. Wesley were given total slack. Even when he was utter wank.

So no. You're wrong. Again.

The exact opposite of this is true.

We finished 4th that season under Bruce. 3rd highest scorers in the league. We had that league's equivalents of Salah and Mane who had 40 goal contributions in 40 games between them as well as a certain Jack Grealish. Davis made by far the most appearances of any of our center forwards that season and he still only had 2 goals to his name.

Wesley played in a team that eventually stayed up on the final day of the season and finished 17th, who by the time he got injured at Burnley had won just 6 in 21 and just climbed out of the relegation zone for the first time in 4 weeks with that win. Villa were never higher than 15th in the table, and that was on the opening week of the season. 

[sparrow1988]

15 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Was concerned with thr start of that video but the end highlights he doesn't appear to be very far away at all.

A major step up from the earlier clip of him training.  Another similar level of progression in the next week or two and he could well be on the bench before April.

I was too but then I remembered that he has one leg which is something like 5 cm shorter than the other.