Wesley Moraes

[nick76]

8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think he could play a whole season and still not score. But I do agree he seemed to offer more overall than Wesley did.  

For what though? Davis holds up in ineffective areas that defenders are happy for him to go, he creates no goals and scores no goals...I don’t know what he offers that gets him so much respect that he does.

[KenjiOgiwara]

14 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Wesley

21 League appearances 

5 goals

1 assist

 

Davis

25 League appearances

0 goals

0 assists

 

You are comparing apples and oranges. Davis had to play with a rubbish championship side under Steve Bruce. Wesley got to play with a Villa side with massive confidence after being promoted, and after buying £ 127 million worth of talent.

Pretend for a second Wesley played for us in 2018 under Steve Bruce. You think he would have done well? Hah.

Unless you actually here try to argue Keinan's 2 minutes subs is the same as when Wesley played 90 minutes after 90 minutes? An appearance isn't an appearance.

Edited March 11, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[Vive_La_Villa]

8 minutes ago, nick76 said:

For what though? Davis holds up in ineffective areas that defenders are happy for him to go, he creates no goals and scores no goals...I don’t know what he offers that gets him so much respect that he does.

I think it was more to do with how bad Wesley was at times rather than how good Davis is.
 

However we saw glimpses of what Wesley could offer against Everton and Burnley where some very physical defenders couldn’t handle him.   We also so glimpses of Davis where he was a real nuisance. Just no end product.  I think neither are good enough to be honest but I’m still looking forward to Wesley returning.

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

You are comparing apples and oranges. Davis had to play with a rubbish championship side under Steve Bruce. Wesley got to play with a Villa side with massive confidence after being promoted, and after buying £ 127 million worth of talent.

Pretend for a second Wesley played for us in 2018 under Steve Bruce. You think he would have done well? Hah.

Unless you actually here try to argue Keinan's 2 minutes subs is the same as when Wesley played 90 minutes after 90 minutes? An appearance isn't an appearance.

Side that finished 3rd mate? I think Wesley would have managed more than 2 goals. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

12 minutes ago, nick76 said:

For what though? Davis holds up in ineffective areas that defenders are happy for him to go, he creates no goals and scores no goals...I don’t know what he offers that gets him so much respect that he does.

Do you not watch us play at all? He literally just had a cameo where his hold up play in the box got us 3 big chances in 8 minutes. Arguably more than Ollie did during 90 minutes, despite having a cross bar header.

[nick76]

1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Do you not watch us play at all? He literally just had a cameo where his hold up play in the box got us 3 big chances in 8 minutes. Arguably more than Ollie did during 90 minutes, despite having a cross bar header.

Of course I watch us, and watched him in PL2, Championship etc, he isn’t good enough.  I question whether you watch us...

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Side that finished 3rd mate? I think Wesley would have managed more than 2 goals. 

Didn't finish 4th from what I remember. I also seem to remember us not having much of a scoring striker. Most goals came from midfield.

And no. The way we played football then would not have suited Wesley at all. And his overrall contribution would have been far worse than Davis. Davis was one of the reasons we scored a lot from midfield.

[KenjiOgiwara]

Just now, nick76 said:

Of course I watch us, and watched him in PL2, Championship etc, he isn’t good enough.  I question whether you watch us...

Such a weak comeback. You literally stated something I proved wrong by looking ONE match back. Have a word.

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Such a weak comeback. You literally stated something I proved wrong by looking ONE match back. Have a word.

You just said he created 3 big chances, yet he didn’t...I didn’t feel it was right to call you out on a lie, sorry my bad I’ll call you out next time rather than be more general.

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

5 minutes ago, nick76 said:

You just said he created 3 big chances, yet he didn’t...I didn’t feel it was right to call you out on a lie, sorry my bad I’ll call you out next time rather than be more general.

His hold up play did.

What you actually said was, and I quote "Davis holds up in ineffective areas that defenders are happy for him to go, he creates no goals and scores no goals" Which is blatantly bullshit, and disproven by going ONE match back.

But enjoy believing other wise.

[Tomaszk]

I hope he's been watching and learning in his time away.

He's never going to be able to play like Ollie, but he can improve what he did for us substantially by being in the right areas.

[HKP90]

11 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

You are comparing apples and oranges. Davis had to play with a rubbish championship side under Steve Bruce. Wesley got to play with a Villa side with massive confidence after being promoted, and after buying £ 127 million worth of talent.

Pretend for a second Wesley played for us in 2018 under Steve Bruce. You think he would have done well? Hah.

Unless you actually here try to argue Keinan's 2 minutes subs is the same as when Wesley played 90 minutes after 90 minutes? An appearance isn't an appearance.

Ok minutes then. According to Transfermarkt in the Premier League this season and last season, Davis has played 607 minutes, with no goals and no assists. 
 

Based on Wes’s stats he should have scored 2 goals.

Plus, and I feel like I need to reiterate this point- he’s never scored or set up a goal in the prem. None.

[KenjiOgiwara]

Hard to score and get assists when your minutes are short camoes when the team is already losing.

If I remember correctly he started in the cup, and he also scored. It's a weird thing isn't it?

[Vive_La_Villa]

15 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Didn't finish 4th from what I remember. I also seem to remember us not having much of a scoring striker. Most goals came from midfield.

And no. The way we played football then would not have suited Wesley at all. And his overrall contribution would have been far worse than Davis. Davis was one of the reasons we scored a lot from midfield.

Sorry yes it was 4th. Forgot about Fulham’s charge up the table. We didn’t score much with Davis up front. But then we signed Grabban and he managed 8 in 15 games. But to be fair he had Grealish whereas Davis didn’t. 
 

I think Wesley would score goals in the championship. But I guess we’ll never know so it’s a probably a pointless debate.

[nick76]

1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

His hold up play did.

What you actually said was, and I quote "Davis holds up in ineffective areas that defenders are happy for him to go, he creates no goals and scores no goals" Which is blatantly bullshit, and disproven by going ONE match back.

You haven’t disproven anything but let’s agree to disagree because we aren’t seeing the same things because you sad he created three big chances which I don’t believe he did.  If we can’t agree on basics then we aren’t going to agree.

I’m just glad that Smith seems to be agreeing with me with the lack of game time for Davis whereas Smith seems keen on having Wes back.

[Farlz]

I'm delighted to see him back. 14 months out injured must be awful for the bloke. While he wasn't some absolute goal scoring machine his injury was a huge blow to us last season. 

I think he's a much better option to bring off the bench rather than Davis.

[HKP90]

7 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Hard to score and get assists when your minutes are short camoes when the team is already losing.

If I remember correctly he started in the cup, and he also scored. It's a weird thing isn't it?

So now we are adding other criteria? 

The goal was against Burton. He also had an assist against Bristol City. Not Premier quality. 

1 in 4 vs 0 in 7. 

 

[Tomaszk]

Wesley should be better. Not his fault at all, but he cost £20m and was our record transfer. He's probably earning 3x what Keinan does.

The fact they're even close to getting compared means Wes has been a disappointment IMO.

I lost it with him last year. He just did nothing right for me and played about 200 mins of "good" football all season. I think Samatta was/is better. 

It'll help him playing in a much better team. I'd really like to get him back for the last few months so the club can make a decision on whether we can go with him next season as back-up.

It's going to be tough because it could take Wes six months to get over his injury mentally. Unfair to judge him really, but we can't wait forever when the ceiling of the player coming back is so unknown. Ollie tears a hamstring week 1 of next season, can we go with Wes & Davies for four months and not be sat in the bottom 6? Don't like the sound of it myself.

[sne]

[Indigo]

They've both largely flattered to deceive but the reason I'd be more willing to have patience with Wesley rather than Davis is that he's put in performances in the Premier League (Everton, Burnley and Norwich even though the latter was essentially glorified Championship football last season) that Davis has never put in at any level. It's clear there's a player in there, just a matter if he could ever put it together semi-consistently and show that they weren't complete flashes in the pan.