Wesley Moraes

[7392craig]

2 hours ago, VillaChris said:

There's certainly a place for a targetman striker in this team even if would be just more of a plan B option.

I certainly wouldn't have an issue if we're just playing out the season with 3-4 games left giving Wes some starts (surely will be back by April) and having Watkins wider and see how that looks given Ollie likes to drift wide frequently in games or have it as option in second half of games we're drawing.

Not saying they’re comparable in quality, but I’ve thought a few times that Giroud would’ve already scored quite a few for us this season, the way we play. If he’s capable of being half of Giroud after his injury he’s worth holding onto, at the very least for being a different type of option.

[birdman]

3 hours ago, villalad21 said:

He didn't exactly help himself by dilly dallying in midfield and not being in the box when we were in positions to cross. He was also terrible at heading.

Wesley wants to be a part of the build up play from midfield. That's one of his first instincts. To drop deep and link up the play.

That's the problem with Wes. He is not a 9.

Hmmm Watkins does this too I've noticed? He's been everywhere other than the box as far as I can tell lately... 

[villalad21]

25 minutes ago, birdman said:

Hmmm Watkins does this too I've noticed? He's been everywhere other than the box as far as I can tell lately... 

Watkins isn't wasting time in midfield.

Yes he is occasionally drifting into wide areas to receive the ball and is frequently creating chances for himself by drifting inside.

But most of the times he is in the box when he needs to be. That's the important thing.

[birdman]

15 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Watkins isn't wasting time in midfield.

Yes he is occasionally drifting into wide areas to receive the ball and is frequently creating chances for himself by drifting inside.

But most of the times he is in the box when he needs to be. That's the important thing.

Watkins may not be wasting time but he's not scoring from these areas either. There was a reason Wes was dropping deep, probably the same reason why Watkins is dropping off too! 

Anyway he shouldnt be written off when most of the team were woeful during that period. Whether he can come back from that injury and get that chance is another matter but I wish him the best and hope to see him next year. 

[villalad21]

2 minutes ago, birdman said:

Anyway he shouldnt be written off when most of the team were woeful during that period.

Ok. 

Do you have a timeframe to when we can start saying he isn't good enough?

[birdman]

48 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Ok. 

Do you have a timeframe to when we can start saying he isn't good enough?

Course I dont you sausage! Why dont you write a letter to Dean and find out?

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

I partially see it this way, yes he has been injured for a long time, no playing time etc.

However I think the time out could also have it's benefits.

 - He will have had time to settle into his surroundings, the country, and better his relationship with manager, staff and players etc.

 - He will also have had time to watch games, learn where he needs to improve and potentially improve his football awareness and adaptation to how the Premier League works.

- If and when he comes back, it will be in much improved and attacking team, as opposed to being under the cosh for majority and having to lay deep or be all over the pitch to defend.

I think people underestimate how much being unsettled and uncomfortable can affect players.

The rest will simply be down to his physical capability as a few others have stressed.

Edited December 16, 2020 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[hippo]

15 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Ok. 

Do you have a timeframe to when we can start saying he isn't good enough?

Even if he doesn't - the hierarchy at VP , and Wesley himself will have such timescales. If he proves his fitness (and thats by no means a given) - he won't want to stick around not getting a game. 

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

Even if he doesn't - the hierarchy at VP , and Wesley himself will have such timescales. If he proves his fitness (and thats by no means a given) - he won't want to stick around not getting a game. 

It's the classic VT syndrome.

The longer you are out the better you become

[sparrow1988]

2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I partially see it this way, yes he has been injured for a long time, no playing time etc.

However I think the time out could also have it's benefits.

 - He will have had time to settle into his surroundings, the country, and better his relationship with manager, staff and players etc.

 - He will also have had time to watch games, learn where he needs to improve and potentially improve his football awareness and adaptation to how the Premier League works.

- If and when he comes back, it will be in much improved and attacking team, as opposed to being under the cosh for majority and having to lay deep or be all over the pitch to defend.

I think people underestimate how much being unsettled and uncomfortable can affect players.

The rest will simply be down to his physical capability as a few others have stressed.

I think that you underestimate the effect of the following sequence of commands:

Select Player -> Actions -> Talk to player -> Training Level/Current Form -> Praise.

Bingo bango - Morale rises to superb and you have once again pulled a man management stroke and the player gets out of their rut and starts banging them in from everywhere.

 

In all seriousness I agree with the bold bit above. They are people with feelings just like anyone else, not robots.

[AVTuco]

So is he back soon or not?

[ozvilla28]

Is he in full training or still rehabilitation and when is he due back.

[hippo]

3 hours ago, AVTuco said:

So is he back soon or not?

What like in the matchday squad ? - no not anytime soon.

[Dave-R]

3 hours ago, ozvilla28 said:

Is he in full training or still rehabilitation and when is he due back.

Isnt he in training lightly now, thought he was doing some light training and footwork on the field from what I read, now if theres any truth to that I do not know.

I actually cant wait to see him again, hope he does good on his return, I thought before his injury he started to get used to go up against players abit more.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Dave-R

[Rightdm00]

I will never understand people who have an agenda against players on the teams they support. If you want to incessantly hate on a player their are 475 other footballers in the Prem you can hate on and that's before you even start considering the other european leagues. 

Just pick one of them and hate away til you're blue in the face. 

 

[Dave-R]

1 minute ago, Rightdm00 said:

I will never understand people who have an agenda against players on the teams they support. If you want to incessantly hate on a player their are 475 other footballers in the Prem you can hate on and that's before you even start considering the other european leagues. 

Just pick one of them and hate away til you're blue in the face. 

 

It's not hate or having an agenda towards a player of your own club you support though just by saying what you feel. Just because people have other different views than the different view you have towards the player you like doesn't make it an agenda or hate. Everyone is different and so to are there tones and use of words. People are aloud to talk about the bad of a player as much as they are the good and it still doesnt mean its hate or called having an agenda.

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

I will never understand people who have an agenda against players on the teams they support. If you want to incessantly hate on a player their are 475 other footballers in the Prem you can hate on and that's before you even start considering the other european leagues. 

Just pick one of them and hate away til you're blue in the face. 

 

Depends if you do it in the ground during the game or day to day analysis.  

People will say I have a bias against Davis but I just don’t think he’s good enough but when I’m at the game watching him I would say that I back all the players on the pitch as much as anybody.  Chanting, defending and then howling at opposition players.  

I think in between games I can discuss my feelings on the individual players and there is nothing wrong with that.  

At the end of the day I support Aston Villa, not a player and I want the best for Aston Villa.

[wilko154]

4 hours ago, villalad21 said:

It's the classic VT syndrome.

The longer you are out the better you become

I actually expect him to be better than he was last season. 

Last season he was under a lot of pressure, a record signing and our main striker with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Now he's coming back into a much better team and competing to be the main striker; cameo appearances will benefit him to begin.

If he can perform as well as he did against Burnley on New Years Day then he will be perfect for us, until his injury that day he was unplayable.

[DaveAV1]

8 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Depends if you do it in the ground during the game or day to day analysis.  

People will say I have a bias against Davis but I just don’t think he’s good enough but when I’m at the game watching him I would say that I back all the players on the pitch as much as anybody.  Chanting, defending and then howling at opposition players.  

I think in between games I can discuss my feelings on the individual players and there is nothing wrong with that.  

At the end of the day I support Aston Villa, not a player and I want the best for Aston Villa.

Whilst I agree with you, I think there are sometimes posts that go beyond plain criticism, (not yours). I accept that it’s often difficult to judge what people are saying and their feelings behind the words when you’re not actually talking to them face to face or even on the phone. However some of the posts I’ve read are hard to interpret in anyway other than down right abuse. 

On a more positive note the negative criticism that is quite common on VT especially after a poor result is rarely transmitted at VP. Fans at games take a lot more to turn them than on here, which often only needs us to concede a throw in if we aren’t 3-0 up with 5 minutes to go. 

[Dave-R]

On 15/12/2020 at 17:13, villalad21 said:

He didn't exactly help himself by dilly dallying in midfield and not being in the box when we were in positions to cross. He was also terrible at heading.

Wesley wants to be a part of the build up play from midfield. That's one of his first instincts. To drop deep and link up the play.

That's the problem with Wes. He is not a 9.

You know or should know that when we had Wesley and was very green to this league we was seeing less that 20-30% of the ball in our control. I do not know how Wesley was supposed to even be in the box when we was so back up most of the time and parking the bus was almost a guarenteed thing last season before lock down. Wesley hung in midfield so much because he had to. When were did actually get crosses in to Wesley Ghazi was on the left and Trez on the right, Ghazi was one culprit who would constantly send crosses to the first defender or blatantly over the whole defence to Trezegeut. At that point Trezegeut should of been far post attacking which he didnt click onto till late last season (the only one who clicked on to back post attackin). Now when Wesley was waiting for crosses we for most of the time just could service him ( there is still that going on today with Watkins in some matches). We struggled to service Davis, Samatta, Wesley and in some ways without Barkley are struggling to service Watkins.

We spend far to much time on the left Wing plains and simple, as others pointed out we become to clear to opposition where were going and what were doing and with who. Opposition know full well that crossing wise we are crap at times at servicing a lone striker or at least we certainly were in the championship. We couldn't service Wesley to save our life despite him grabbing a few goals last season.

With Wes dropping back into midfield, I agree without he would do that but i felt at times it really helped us that he did do that because he was an extra man to help out where it was needed. 

We just need players with better passing and crosses and more success rate on passes and crosses in the final third, that's why Barkley is here because of his successful rate on all that. Barkley just doesnt play them out to the flank, he thinks of our Lone striker as much as the guy on the wing, hewill pass through the centre if he thinks theres a chance we can make something of the pass and that's the way it should be. The problem last season was when Grealish moved out wide for Ghazi we then had no one in Grealish spot to make them passes through centre as much as the flank. We struggled even more by that time to service a striker and despite how much Samatta wasnt working, out servicing itself became worse I think.

I reckon you could put the best strikers in the world in our team and they would struggle at times and all because we sometimes struggle to give them the ball. I've seen Grealish for one hold the ball to much instead of passing the ball off. Instead of passing it off to an obvious choice player at the time for a shot we then become our own worst enemy on the pitch and possession is broken down without a shot flying at the keeper. There are a few players who get to the box and do not let shots fly the game against Wolves demonstrated this and that's why they had more shots than us on target. So yea when weve got a guy close enough to the box a d they then try do to much and take abit further, theres no way in hell were ever going to make passes to a striker. What we should be doing is looking for gaps, then when the gaps stop being exposed whoever's is on the ball if in good enough position should just let a shot go.

We also need to stop racing up to opposition end, getting there and stalling. Many a time you can see that we get to the final third and opposition hasn't regrouped, we then wait on more of our guys arriving only to find by that time that the opposition has formed the defence properly. We do hold to much at times when counter attacking, we just need to go and do what we can, Liverpool was a fine example that on counters we just go and speed is your key, we totally trashed them because they could t handle the speed in which we countered, no slow down just go, go and go.