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Wesley Moraes


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2 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

How long would full fitness take to come back once a player is back in full training? 
 

Get the feeling we won’t be seeing Wesley this season, hope I’m wrong as I’d love to see how he would perform in this current team. 

He needs to play in some friendlies at training ground or something. If it's March I can see us arranging some during the international break so probably more likely early April return.

We're seeing how careful we're being with Barkley currently and that's just from a hamstring pull so patience is really needed here.

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Aston Villa striker Wesley to take another step toward return by resuming group training | Express & Star (expressandstar.com)

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Aston Villa striker Wesley to take another step toward return by resuming group training

Villa striker Wesley will this week take another key step towards a return by training with his team-mates for the first-time in a year.

 

The Brazilian striker is scheduled to take part in non-contact group training at Bodymoor Heath as nears the end of his long recovery from a serious knee injury.

Villa’s plan is for Wesley to resume full contact training in mid-January, with the hope he may then be ready for a return to action toward the end of the month.

The 24-year-old, who joined in a then club record £21million deal from Club Brugge in 2019, has not featured since suffering the injury in a Premier League fixture at Burnley on New Year’s Day 2020.

Smith said: “Wesley will be joining in with the group this week on a non-contact basis, just to get him in among the players.

“We will have more of an idea when he starts full contact training, probably in two weeks. He is getting a lot closer now, which is pleasing.”

Wesley had scored five goals in 21 Premier League appearances before his debut season in English football was cruelly cut short.

His progress over the coming weeks will determine how fiercely Villa pursue attacking targets during the January transfer window.

Smith has suggested a pragmatic approach to the month for a club which spent £80m on five signings during the previous window.

Recent performances have helped convince the boss there is depth to his squad, which will be further boosted by the returns of Ross Barkley and Trezeguet from hamstring injuries.

Smith said: “We believe we have good depth in the squad, with four or five players coming back from injury, which will be a big boost to us in January with the number of games we have.

“We are always looking for good value opportunities. We will never turn our noses up. But they have to be there, if we are to move.”

 

 

Edited by JAMAICAN-VILLAN
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Found this interesting article on ACL injuries on football.

https://barcainnovationhub.com/recovery-time-of-the-anterior-cruciate-ligament-injury-in-elite-football/

In particular, these lines stood out as most interesting.

Quote
  • All players were capable of coming back to training, but 7% (9 of them) suffered complications before playing the first match (a new rupture or other complications in the knee).
  • The average downtime after ACL reconstruction was of 6.6 months to come back to training and of 7.4 months to come back to competition.
  • Coming back to competition a year after suffering an ACL injury was high (85.8%); however, only 65% (60 out of 93 players) were capable of competing at the highest level three years later.

Smith has talked about Wesley having had complications in his knee after the surgery which probably explains why he's been out for so long and most likely at least twice the average downtime after ACL reconstruction quoted above. I'm far from a sports doctor, but none of this looks good at all. As in, if he were in his late 20s I could genuinely see him straight up retiring from this injury. Not only does the injury itself seems to be particularly debilitating for players to continue performing at the highest level, the fact that Wesley's recovery has been particularly problematic does not bode well.

Edited by Laughable Chimp
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There's a footballer in Norway called Vamouti Diomande. He was exceptional in a promotion winning side,  then he got a crazy knee injury. I think it was similar to Wes, but not sure. Essentially his knee split in two and he did his ligaments IIRC.

After about 15 months or so he was back, but too early. The exact same injury happened again.

Basically finished his development. And to top it off he did his achillies 24 months after that.

I've said it before, but I'd be amazed if Wes returns for us in a useful capacity.

PS. Obviously Villa has a medical team and resources unmatched for any Norwegian side, but a body is still a body. There are limitations to how much beating a knee can take without you essentially becoming a disabled person. 

Edited by KenjiOgiwara
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15 minutes ago, a-k said:

It really is not as simple as "he's been out for longer so the injury is worse". In fact, I would actually like to know if there is any relationship between the time from ACL reconstruction to return to play and 1) the occurrence of subsequent injuries, and 2) career longevity / performance at elite levels (when accounting for age). There are many factors that will influence the time until the person returns to competition. An example from when I used to work with athletes/teams is two players with the same ACL injury and surgery during the same week. One was back in 6 months while the other took over a year. Many reasons for that. It could simply be that Wes has completely recovered physically, but the psychological aspect (e.g., confidence of performing movements) is not yet there.

Of course, I don't know the intricate details of Wes' injury and it could indeed be much worse than normal with multiple setbacks that could affect his career, but that's not something that can be assumed just from time out. For example, NBA all-star Kristaps Porzingis tore his ACL at the age of 22, was out for ~1.5 years, and returned last season in very similar condition compared to pre-injury.

Anyways, it could just be as simple as this: we're currently overperforming compared to expectations, so why rush in bringing him back? Give him as much time as he wants/needs. I think we'd all rather bring him back slowly and make sure he is better than 100%, both physically and mentally, than throw him into this overly physically demanding shortened season.

Porzingis injury history over the last year is not a fun reading if you are a Mavericks fan

DATE DESCRIPTION
10/09/2020 Knee
08/23/2020 Knee
08/22/2020 Heel
08/20/2020 Heel
08/18/2020 Knee
08/12/2020 Heel
08/09/2020 Knee
03/11/2020 Knee
02/08/2020 Knee
02/05/2020 Nose
02/01/2020 Knee
01/01/2020 Knee

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/kristaps-porzingis-player-injuries

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On 16/12/2020 at 11:48, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I partially see it this way, yes he has been injured for a long time, no playing time etc.

However I think the time out could also have it's benefits.

 - He will have had time to settle into his surroundings, the country, and better his relationship with manager, staff and players etc.

 - He will also have had time to watch games, learn where he needs to improve and potentially improve his football awareness and adaptation to how the Premier League works.

- If and when he comes back, it will be in much improved and attacking team, as opposed to being under the cosh for majority and having to lay deep or be all over the pitch to defend.

I think people underestimate how much being unsettled and uncomfortable can affect players.

The rest will simply be down to his physical capability as a few others have stressed.

He spent the majority of his year out injured back home in Brazil.

Think this is optimism for optimism's sake here.

A developing player losing more than a year to a very serious injury is bad news.

We don't need to dress it up. It's up to him to prove he won't let it define him.

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4 minutes ago, est1874 said:

He spent the majority of his year out injured back home in Brazil.

Think this is optimism for optimism's sake here.

i dont think it is necessarily

whatever penny dropped for Luiz during the lockdown needs to drop for wesley too and hopefully luiz can help him with that 

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2 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

i dont think it is necessarily

whatever penny dropped for Luiz during the lockdown needs to drop for wesley too and hopefully luiz can help him with that 

I don't see Wesley's attitude as being a problem whatsoever - seems like a model pro to me. It made sense for him to recover in a better climate, and be around family, especially as there's been a global pandemic. 

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2 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

i dont think it is necessarily

whatever penny dropped for Luiz during the lockdown needs to drop for wesley too and hopefully luiz can help him with that 

If he hadn't suffered a devastating injury I'd agree with you.

Luiz hasn't been injured once in his whole time with us, so I don't think it's in any way comparable to compare a lockdown with a double ligament rupture tbqh.

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Good he's back in the training group but non contact suggests just a few stretches and odd lap around the pitch in the warm up for training so still a fair bit off.

Wonder if he's been found a house yet. He did interview in FourFourtwo Magazine just before the injury and he was pictured in the Hyatt up on Broad street so made sense to let him go back to Brazil to give him some more space at his family home.

Edited by VillaChris
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On 04/01/2021 at 03:38, Laughable Chimp said:

Found this interesting article on ACL injuries on football.

https://barcainnovationhub.com/recovery-time-of-the-anterior-cruciate-ligament-injury-in-elite-football/

In particular, these lines stood out as most interesting.

Smith has talked about Wesley having had complications in his knee after the surgery which probably explains why he's been out for so long and most likely at least twice the average downtime after ACL reconstruction quoted above. I'm far from a sports doctor, but none of this looks good at all. As in, if he were in his late 20s I could genuinely see him straight up retiring from this injury. Not only does the injury itself seems to be particularly debilitating for players to continue performing at the highest level, the fact that Wesley's recovery has been particularly problematic does not bode well.

He did his PCL, the one on the other side a lot applies but the injuries take longer to heal normal 10-11 months.

The PCL is larger and stronger so if he did a full tear then it would take him much longer. Normally it is only a partial tear.

Edited by MotoMkali
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I think every player signed under Smith has improved since they signed for us, not expecting Wesley to be a superstar but he has more upside than downside.

Interesting the same Wesley critics are Traore critics 😏

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The recent videos of him practicing shooting from a pass received on the edge of the area are both positive and concerning.

On the one hand he is demonstrating an ability to turn on the ball and find the corner of the net, and is actively kicking a ball om the field.

On the other, he is doing it so gingerly as to look like a kid playing for the first time.  Hard to tell if he's taking it easy because he's been told to or he has zero confidence in his joints.

Either way, looks like he is still an extremely long way off doing anything, but on the positive it is progression and fingers crossed it continues (at as fast a pace as his body allows).

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Re the recent videos I doubt they would post them if there were any concerns. It's part of his rehabilitation so there must be some improvement from previous drills. Also he ran gingerly before his injury due to his difference leg lengths.

Edited by Sulberto21
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38 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

The recent videos of him practicing shooting from a pass received on the edge of the area are both positive and concerning.

On the one hand he is demonstrating an ability to turn on the ball and find the corner of the net, and is actively kicking a ball om the field.

On the other, he is doing it so gingerly as to look like a kid playing for the first time.  Hard to tell if he's taking it easy because he's been told to or he has zero confidence in his joints.

Either way, looks like he is still an extremely long way off doing anything, but on the positive it is progression and fingers crossed it continues (at as fast a pace as his body allows).

That's how he struck a ball before the injury tbf. Anything from more than 15 yards scruffy central.

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