Tyrone Mings

[AV82]

7 hours ago, M_Afro said:

What are his many shortcomings? I think he’s a top player personally who is pretty effective at most things. Genuinely interested to hear the many things that you think are wrong with his game.

Poor header of the ball, downright dangerous challenges, loose passes, mistakes and stupid Cruyff turns. Don't get me wrong he's a great player and a huge part of why we're back in the Prem (and performing well currently) but he loses his head far too much for my liking which is frustrating given how likeable he is.

[VillanousOne]

He's in Garth Brooks 2020 team of the year.

adding: 'Mings kept the most clean sheets (10) and blocked the most shots (26) of any Villa defender in Premier League games in 2020.'
 

[sne]

36 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

He's in Garth Brooks 2020 team of the year.

adding: 'Mings kept the most clean sheets (10) and blocked the most shots (26) of any Villa defender in Premier League games in 2020.'
 

[Laughable Chimp]

50 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

He's in Garth Brooks 2020 team of the year.

adding: 'Mings kept the most clean sheets (10) and blocked the most shots (26) of any Villa defender in Premier League games in 2020.'
 

What? I'm sorry but that reasoning is garbage. There's just so much wrong with it.

1- You can't judge a defender based on clean sheets, its a team effort. Its not like goals or assists.

2- He's  played the most games out of all our defenders in 2020 easily so of course he's going to naturally have more clean sheets than the rest.(which btw, I doubt is actually that much different to our other centre-backs especially when adjusted on a per-game basis).

3- I don't know who this Garth Brooks is, but if he's making a 2020 team of the year or 2020PL team of the year, using Mings's supposed superiority to his own team-mates as the reasoning for his inclusion as opposed to the rest of the league or all top 5 leagues is absolutely asinine. If he's making an Aston Villa 2020 team of the year, it would make a lot more sense I guess but a lot more uninteresting.

Well just googled it, turns out he's not. Its a PL team of the year.

The blocks point is slightly better than clean sheets but is still very flawed.

Honestly, this stinks off "I haven't watched Tyrone Mings play at all but he got into the England team last year and people are hype about him so he must be good. Let me google some stats which support this opinion."

And proceeds to fail to find many good statistics Mings(I'm not saying Mings is a bad defender here, just that his defensive statistics aren't really that great) and is forced to use these bottom of the barrel ones.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Laughable Chimp

[DCJonah]

56 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

He's in Garth Brooks 2020 team of the year.

adding: 'Mings kept the most clean sheets (10) and blocked the most shots (26) of any Villa defender in Premier League games in 2020.'
 

I would imagine most pundits rate Mings and can see his quality. Just a handful on here who think he shouldn't be playing over Hause.

[Guest av1]

12 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I would imagine most pundits rate Mings and can see his quality. Just a handful on here who think he shouldn't be playing over Hause.

Hause has improved an awful lot this season, and credit to him for that, but I don't think he's in the same league as Ming's. 

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, av1 said:

Hause has improved an awful lot this season, and credit to him for that, but I don't think he's in the same league as Ming's. 

Hause is a fantastic back up cb for where we are as a club, but agreed, there is no way he should be keeping Mings out of the team. 

[Kingman]

IMO Konsa is the best defender at the club, I would happily see Konsa paired up with one of Stones, Coady or Tarkowski over Mings. 

[Sam-AVFC]

47 minutes ago, Kingman said:

IMO Konsa is the best defender at the club, I would happily see Konsa paired up with one of Stones, Coady or Tarkowski over Mings. 

There's no chance we'd be able to get 2 of those and the 3rd is shit with the ball which is the last thing we need. 

[birdman]

On 03/01/2021 at 15:37, AV82 said:

Poor header of the ball, downright dangerous challenges, loose passes, mistakes and stupid Cruyff turns. Don't get me wrong he's a great player and a huge part of why we're back in the Prem (and performing well currently) but he loses his head far too much for my liking which is frustrating given how likeable he is.

That may be but he's a ball playing center half and it's working for us. I think we need someone who has a bit of steel and nastiness. Hopefully he can iron out his flaws but of course that applies to EVERYONE. Bored of the whinging about him tbh

Edited January 5, 2021 by birdman

[Indigo]

31 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

There's no chance we'd be able to get 2 of those and the 3rd is shit with the ball which is the last thing we need. 

On top of what you've said, Coady has played what, 5 games at centre back not in a back 3? 

I'm good with Mings. Left footed, a good partnership with Konsa and simply a massive influence on a defence that has been excellent this season because of the performances of him (and his teammates) and not in spite of them.

[Laughable Chimp]

On 03/01/2021 at 19:53, DCJonah said:

Hause is a fantastic back up cb for where we are as a club, but agreed, there is no way he should be keeping Mings out of the team. 

What has Mings done exactly in the past few games that put him so high above Hause? In the last 2 games Mings has gotten a red card and been "arguably" at fault for a goal, been lucky to not concede a penalty and another card for the elbow on Pogba and its not as if he's been stellar for the season so far either. In the meantime, Hause has barely if at all put a foot wrong in all the games he's featured for us this season and has strengths(particularly his heading) that exceed those of Mings.

Meanwhile, Mings's mistakes get constantly excused away. This has been true since last season as well. I wasn't that big a fan of Konsa either but the amount of times where I stopped myself and said "Konsa couldve done better" when we conceded a goal pales in comparison to the amount of time I've said that about Mings and this has continued through to this season as well. Every defender makes mistakes, but is it really a coincidence that his mistakes seem to be the most "spotlighted" and the ones that lead to goals conceded?

I don't mind people saying Mings is the better defender of the two but at least form wise, its clearly not out of the question for Hause to come in for him. I swear some of you people rate Mings more than he rates himself and that's really saying something.

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Laughable Chimp

[Zatman]

On 03/01/2021 at 11:23, Steero113 said:

Good defenders make mistakes, and sometimes howlers. 

Here is a video of Vidic vs. Torres over his career in the PL. Widely regarded as one of the best CB's of the last 20 years and you know what? He gets repeatedly arseholed by the same player with multiple red cards, howlers leading to goals and general shit play. You would literally have a meltdown if anyone of these incidents was Tyrone. 

Still a bloody good defender, so is Mings. You are WAY too critical of everything, just chill. 

I remember John Terry getting a stupid red card at Canp Nou vs Barcelona. Better defenders than Mings have made errors in bigger games

[birdman]

13 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

What has Mings done exactly in the past few games that put him so high above Hause? In the last 2 games Mings has gotten a red card and been "arguably" at fault for a goal, been lucky to not concede a penalty and another card for the elbow on Pogba and its not as if he's been stellar for the season so far either. In the meantime, Hause has barely if at all put a foot wrong in all the games he's featured for us this season and has strengths(particularly his heading) that exceed those of Mings.

Meanwhile, Mings's mistakes get constantly excused away. This has been true since last season as well. I wasn't that big a fan of Konsa either but the amount of times where I stopped myself and said "Konsa couldve done better" when we conceded a goal pales in comparison to the amount of time I've said that about Mings and this has continued through to this season as well.

I don't mind people saying Mings is the better defender of the two but at least form wise, its clearly not out of the question for Hause to come in for him. I swear some of you people rate Mings more than he rates himself and that's really saying something.

 

Hause isn't just going to come in for him after FOUR appearances vs Mings FOURTEEN. I'm not saying that can't happen going forwards but fact is Mings is established and important. I think he would have to mess up badly to lose his place and for me that isn't defined by the recent incidents you mention. A soft red, a dodgy header that was actually more ManU good play rather than poor defending - and catching Pogba in the face? Well boo feckin hoo! This is football and we all moan how the game is going soft lol

Hause is decent and will be important for us but disagree on the calls for Mings to be dropped because of this perceived drop in form.

[magnkarl]

Mings seems to be the new pet hate for many of the big clubs' fan bases. There's a whole thread on redcafe just for him where people are comparing him to dictators, mass murderers and the like. I find it fascinating that a side who's had people who ended people's careers on purpose can point fingers at anyone.

 

[TRO]

On 03/01/2021 at 19:30, Laughable Chimp said:

What? I'm sorry but that reasoning is garbage. There's just so much wrong with it.

1- You can't judge a defender based on clean sheets, its a team effort. Its not like goals or assists.

2- He's  played the most games out of all our defenders in 2020 easily so of course he's going to naturally have more clean sheets than the rest.(which btw, I doubt is actually that much different to our other centre-backs especially when adjusted on a per-game basis).

3- I don't know who this Garth Brooks is, but if he's making a 2020 team of the year or 2020PL team of the year, using Mings's supposed superiority to his own team-mates as the reasoning for his inclusion as opposed to the rest of the league or all top 5 leagues is absolutely asinine. If he's making an Aston Villa 2020 team of the year, it would make a lot more sense I guess but a lot more uninteresting.

Well just googled it, turns out he's not. Its a PL team of the year.

The blocks point is slightly better than clean sheets but is still very flawed.

Honestly, this stinks off "I haven't watched Tyrone Mings play at all but he got into the England team last year and people are hype about him so he must be good. Let me google some stats which support this opinion."

And proceeds to fail to find many good statistics Mings(I'm not saying Mings is a bad defender here, just that his defensive statistics aren't really that great) and is forced to use these bottom of the barrel ones.

He is a country & Western singer, he should know?

[Risso]

On 03/01/2021 at 09:43, Greenfly said:

People are always on his back for not being perfect, which is obviously unfair in any case. If he were perfect, we'd never concede a goal ever.

The thing is, defenders are probably under more scrutiny than any other player. A small mistake that would be met with eye rolls further up the pitch can have much bigger consequences of a defender does it.

He is yet to make a mistake that has directly led to a goal this season, so all this stuff about him being error prone is just nonsense frankly. He's not perfect, but if you're expecting him to be then you'll always be disappointed.

Did you not see the Man U, Leeds or Brighton games?

[Dave-R]

On 03/01/2021 at 15:37, AV82 said:

Poor header of the ball, downright dangerous challenges, loose passes, mistakes and stupid Cruyff turns. Don't get me wrong he's a great player and a huge part of why we're back in the Prem (and performing well currently) but he loses his head far too much for my liking which is frustrating given how likeable he is.

Yes I thought what are you doing Mings, no way should a defender who's in charge of sporting defences out make weak Headers like that, he should of put his foot through the ball and cleared it. You see it all to often from our defence the crap Headers that end up causing us abit of a job to sort out, get kicking it down other half of the pitch. If your in charge of defences you have to lead by example and that starts by not making poor choices when it's clear you should just violently clear the ball away with your foot.

[Dave-R]

On 03/01/2021 at 19:38, DCJonah said:

I would imagine most pundits rate Mings and can see his quality. Just a handful on here who think he shouldn't be playing over Hause.

We should of found out exactly how farHause has come by keep playing him till a massive mistake was made by him. Remember Hause comes in and does a splendid job after Mings could of cost us a game by getting sent off. You have to give him the chance and if I were Hause I'd be totally pissed by the whole decision at putting Mings straight back in. Its not because of Mings but because of Hause himself why Hause should of been given more of a run, because he actually played better than Mings did in his last game.

[DCJonah]

16 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

What has Mings done exactly in the past few games that put him so high above Hause? In the last 2 games Mings has gotten a red card and been "arguably" at fault for a goal, been lucky to not concede a penalty and another card for the elbow on Pogba and its not as if he's been stellar for the season so far either. In the meantime, Hause has barely if at all put a foot wrong in all the games he's featured for us this season and has strengths(particularly his heading) that exceed those of Mings.

Meanwhile, Mings's mistakes get constantly excused away. This has been true since last season as well. I wasn't that big a fan of Konsa either but the amount of times where I stopped myself and said "Konsa couldve done better" when we conceded a goal pales in comparison to the amount of time I've said that about Mings and this has continued through to this season as well. Every defender makes mistakes, but is it really a coincidence that his mistakes seem to be the most "spotlighted" and the ones that lead to goals conceded?

I don't mind people saying Mings is the better defender of the two but at least form wise, its clearly not out of the question for Hause to come in for him. I swear some of you people rate Mings more than he rates himself and that's really saying something.

 

Dean Smith disagrees and thats fine with me. 

Mings is clearly an important part of the team.