Tyrone Mings

[Sulberto21]

Yesterday his driven balls into the channel were sumptuous.

[MotoMkali]

6 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

Good for him. Not easy to call out your own team’s fans but sometimes needed.

But Tyrone man it’s Villans come on.

 

Tbf they were being villains. 

[Cizzler]

17 hours ago, wilko154 said:

Some of the comments on this thread are absurd.

People have pulled apart his performance looking for a bad point, which was the turn on the ball he was caught out for. They've then chosen to completely ignore the fact that he played a part in keeping our 5th clean sheet of the season and has been one of our best players over the past three seasons.

The calls to replace him are ridiculous. He's an England international and one of the best players we have, not only in his performances but his leadership of the team.

He may get caught on the ball at times, but he offers a huge amount to the team. Some of his blocks yesterday helped to keep the ball out of the back of the net, his balls forward in games have released players to start counter attacks, and his partnership with Konsa and Martinez improves game on game.

Completely agree - Mings and Konsa are the best CB duo we've had in absolute years. He's a great leader and a bloody good centre back too. To be honest, you can tell a lot as to who actually understands/watches football by reading some of the judgments of Mings in this thread.

People crying to replace him, trying to make out he had a bad game on Saturday after he was almost MoM... I don't know if our fans are just spoilt (honestly, who could we actually realistically sign to upgrade him?) or just idiots.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Cizzler

[nick76]

10 minutes ago, Cizzler said:

Completely agree - Mings and Konsa are the best CB duo we've had in absolute years. He's a great leader and a bloody good centre back too. To be honest, you can tell a lot as to who actually understands/watches football by reading some of the judgments of Mings in this thread.

People crying to replace him, trying to make out he had a bad game on Saturday after he was almost MoM... I don't know if our fans are just spoilt (honestly, who could we actually realistically sign to upgrade him?) or just idiots.

A couple of things in my opinion....

Pro's

• Mings and Konsa I think are awesome there at the back and as a partnership generally.
• I think not only are they good but can develop into a formidable centre back pairing in the coming years
• Mings is a leader off the pitch and a great ambassador on a number of topics
• Mings distribution at times is awesome down the channels
• Konsa for somebody with so little really experience at this level is outstanding

 

Con's

• Mings tries too many Cruyff type turns when exposed
• We concede too many individual errors
• Konsa looks too often Mings when passes, it's frustrating because it's not always the best choice of pass
• Mings isnt a great leader on the pitch yet, but could be.  It's one thing I have talked about previously that I dont think we have that strong leader at the back and hence why we do concede the type of goals we do.

 

"To be honest, you can tell a lot as to who actually understands/watches football by reading some of the judgments of Mings in this thread."  Don't try the better fan/I understand football better argument because on here fans that express feelings have watched and understand football just as much as you but just have different views.  I agree with most of your comments but there are some areas that need addressing from a defensive point of view hence why we have inconsistent defensive results from game to game.  We have 5 clean sheets out of 10 which is awesome but then you look at the games we conceded and you see some real problems defensively.  Our centrebacks are really good, especially considering the games they have played together and at this level but they still have room to grow and do have some inconsistencies and in my opinion we dont have a leader at the back. 

[blandy]

26 minutes ago, nick76 said:

A couple of things in my opinion....

• Mings isnt a great leader on the pitch yet, but could be.  It's one thing I have talked about previously that I dont think we have that strong leader at the back and hence why we do concede the type of goals we do.

... in my opinion we don't have a leader at the back. 

I agree with almost all of what you wrote, apart from this bit quoted. I think he is a good leader at the back. Ditto Emi the 'keeper. They're both vocal, organisers, constant talkers directing people around them. Not perfect, but they show natural leadership and authority.

But other than that. Good post.

[nick76]

10 minutes ago, blandy said:

I agree with almost all of what you wrote, apart from this bit quoted. I think he is a good leader at the back. Ditto Emi the 'keeper. They're both vocal, organisers, constant talkers directing people around them. Not perfect, but they show natural leadership and authority.

But other than that. Good post.

As I said I think he could be but I dont think Mings is there yet.  He reminds me of junior employees working for me over the years in my professional capacity where you can see they have that skill in their locker but just needs to be developed more.  You can see they will be great leaders eventually but are still learning that side.  He does a lot of the right things often as you have mentioned but just needs more time and experience in my opinion and he'll definitely get there.

Edited December 14, 2020 by nick76

[wilko154]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Mings isnt a great leader on the pitch yet, but could be.  It's one thing I have talked about previously that I dont think we have that strong leader at the back and hence why we do concede the type of goals we do.

I'm sorry but you're completely wrong with this.

Mings is probably the biggest leader the club have had since Petrov and Laursen.

It's one of the main reasons he is now an England regular.

We concede the type of goals we do because we have a young, newly put together side. They will improve and visibly have done over the past year.

[nick76]

1 minute ago, wilko154 said:

I'm sorry but you're completely wrong with this.

Mings is probably the biggest leader the club have had since Petrov and Laursen.

It's one of the main reasons he is now an England regular.

We concede the type of goals we do because we have a young, newly put together side. They will improve and visibly have done over the past year.

Ok, I'm wrong in your opinion but not in my opinion. 

I dont think he got into the England team because of his leadership skills but his playing ability in my opinion.

John Terry was a leader on the pitch for us just as an example of others who have been leaders since Petrov and Laursen

Your last line I agree with though...and I said they will grow as time go on and I said that Mings has attributes to be our leader at the back but I dont think he's there yet.  Do you really think that Mings leadership on the pitch is up there or close to our past leaders at the moment? I certainly dont, I can see the trajectory towards that level but not at the moment.  Maybe I have rose tinted glasses of past leaders of the team...

[Indigo]

9 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Ok, I'm wrong in your opinion but not in my opinion. 

I dont think he got into the England team because of his leadership skills but his playing ability in my opinion.

John Terry was a leader on the pitch for us just as an example of others who have been leaders since Petrov and Laursen

Your last line I agree with though...and I said they will grow as time go on and I said that Mings has attributes to be our leader at the back but I dont think he's there yet.  Do you really think that Mings leadership on the pitch is up there or close to our past leaders at the moment? I certainly dont, I can see the trajectory towards that level but not at the moment.  Maybe I have rose tinted glasses of past leaders of the team...

How are you quantifying leadership though? According to people at the club and the people fortunate enough to have been able to go to/cover games he has always been the most vocal on the pitch for us and can audibly be heard marshaling Konsa, Targett etc through games. It's about as much as you can obviously show leadership as a centre half and gives a balance between that and the more "leading by example" type of captain that Jack is.

[nick76]

21 minutes ago, Indigo said:

How are you quantifying leadership though? According to people at the club and the people fortunate enough to have been able to go to/cover games he has always been the most vocal on the pitch for us and can audibly be heard marshaling Konsa, Targett etc through games. It's about as much as you can obviously show leadership as a centre half and gives a balance between that and the more "leading by example" type of captain that Jack is.

For me it's the former of your views of leadership and not a referring to him as a leader by example like Jack but a leader in what I call the old fashion sense. 

Obviously i have been stumped by not being at every game at the moment watching and hearing him up close and having to rely on watching him on the tv and as I have said he is doing some of the things blandy said above, I just dont think he's there yet.  I think we lack leadership at the back in too many situations.  Mings is growing in that area and will be what I want him to be as a leader at the back but for me he's still learning what that is. 

I can see that some of you disagree with me and I have commented on this before and some others have agreed with me, it's just my opinion. 

I think some of our problems at the back are due to growing pains......we can have a great defensive game or at least keep a clean sheet as we have done 5 games out of 10 but then just as quickly we can fall apart at the back and concede several sloppy goals in a game through (for me) naviety, lack of leadership, organisation or silly mistake.  We have a new group at the back on the whole who mostly didnt know each other over a year ago (Emi at Arsenal, Cash at NF, Konsa just come in) so it is to be expected.

For me though Mings is not yet a leader like Terry, Laursen or manner others we have had in the past.  He'll get there but, for me, he's not there yet and we'll continue to have defensive issues until he is or if we get another player in who is (hopefully a replacement for left back ).

As I have said though, I love Mings, I think he's a great players who just keeps improving...this is not me dissing him, just talking about growth we have to go, which has to be a good thing in that we can only get better.  Some of you dont agree with me, which is fine.

[wilko154]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

For me it's the former of your views of leadership and not a referring to him as a leader by example like Jack but a leader in what I call the old fashion sense. 

Obviously i have been stumped by not being at every game at the moment watching and hearing him up close and having to rely on watching him on the tv and as I have said he is doing some of the things blandy said above, I just dont think he's there yet.  I think we lack leadership at the back in too many situations.  Mings is growing in that area and will be what I want him to be as a leader at the back but for me he's still learning what that is. 

I can see that some of you disagree with me and I have commented on this before and some others have agreed with me, it's just my opinion. 

I think some of our problems at the back are due to growing pains......we can have a great defensive game or at least keep a clean sheet as we have done 5 games out of 10 but then just as quickly we can fall apart at the back and concede several sloppy goals in a game through (for me) naviety, lack of leadership, organisation or silly mistake.  We have a new group at the back on the whole who mostly didnt know each other over a year ago (Emi at Arsenal, Cash at NF, Konsa just come in) so it is to be expected.

For me though Mings is not yet a leader like Terry, Laursen or manner others we have had in the past.  He'll get there but, for me, he's not there yet and we'll continue to have defensive issues until he is or if we get another player in who is (hopefully a replacement for left back ).

As I have said though, I love Mings, I think he's a great players who just keeps improving...this is not me dissing him, just talking about growth we have to go, which has to be a good thing in that we can only get better.  Some of you dont agree with me, which is fine.

You've put your point across quite well there to be fair.

Completely agree with the point around growing pains in the team, there have been games this season (Leeds and Southampton for sure) where it has been incredibly frustrating to watch the back four; but theres been others (Leicester, Arsenal, Wolves) where they have been fantastic.

Hopefully the improvements continue this season. You can already tell that having Martinez behind them is a huge plus for them.

[Delphinho123]

I see Mings as a leader. There is clearly a leadership group within the dressing room as well and Mings is part of that. 

I really like Mings. He does frustrate, but look where we were when he first came to the club. He's transformed us as a defensive unit and whilst he has an error in him, he's well worth his place in the side. 

[Indigo]

28 minutes ago, nick76 said:

For me it's the former of your views of leadership and not a referring to him as a leader by example like Jack but a leader in what I call the old fashion sense. 

Obviously i have been stumped by not being at every game at the moment watching and hearing him up close and having to rely on watching him on the tv and as I have said he is doing some of the things blandy said above, I just dont think he's there yet.  I think we lack leadership at the back in too many situations.  Mings is growing in that area and will be what I want him to be as a leader at the back but for me he's still learning what that is. 

I can see that some of you disagree with me and I have commented on this before and some others have agreed with me, it's just my opinion. 

I think some of our problems at the back are due to growing pains......we can have a great defensive game or at least keep a clean sheet as we have done 5 games out of 10 but then just as quickly we can fall apart at the back and concede several sloppy goals in a game through (for me) naviety, lack of leadership, organisation or silly mistake.  We have a new group at the back on the whole who mostly didnt know each other over a year ago (Emi at Arsenal, Cash at NF, Konsa just come in) so it is to be expected.

For me though Mings is not yet a leader like Terry, Laursen or manner others we have had in the past.  He'll get there but, for me, he's not there yet and we'll continue to have defensive issues until he is or if we get another player in who is (hopefully a replacement for left back ).

As I have said though, I love Mings, I think he's a great players who just keeps improving...this is not me dissing him, just talking about growth we have to go, which has to be a good thing in that we can only get better.  Some of you dont agree with me, which is fine.

Didn't wish for that to come across as I was necessarily disagreeing with you, was just legitimately curious as like I said he is largely credited with having those qualities by people that would probably have a better insight than we would in these times.

I love Mings and find myself defending him a lot on here just because some of the criticism can be borderline ridiculous, but I largely agree with your assessment. I think he's a brilliant asset for where we're currently at, both as a player and just as much how admirable of a character he comes across. Certainly not at the status of the players you've mentioned yet, and he might well not even get there, but he's already carved out a big legacy in a short time and I'm sure by the end of his time he'll have added to it even more. We've made noticeable strides in each of the last couple of seasons, the occasional defensive hiccups as you say will happen but they're getting far more infrequent and that's a credit to everyone from the coaching staff to each individual player involved, particularly Emi and Mings for me who have just stamped a level of calmness and authority we'd been lacking.

[blandy]

57 minutes ago, nick76 said:

For me it's the former of your views of leadership and not a referring to him as a leader by example like Jack but a leader in what I call the old fashion sense. 

Obviously i have been stumped by not being at every game at the moment watching and hearing him up close and having to rely on watching him on the tv and as I have said he is doing some of the things blandy said above, I just dont think he's there yet.  I think we lack leadership at the back in too many situations.  Mings is growing in that area and will be what I want him to be as a leader at the back but for me he's still learning what that is. 

I think that (and it's your mention of Laursen and Terry that made me think of this) that there's another aspect to this.

Which is, reading of the game. My perception is that John Terry was really good at reading what might happen before it happened and getting either himself, or a team mate in a position to stop it. I think Tyrone Mings and Martin Laursen are/were not quite as good at that aspect of defending. But Mings is every bit as vocal as Terry, every bit as demanding of team mates, and helpful to team mates in trouble.

So It's not leadership qualities that are not developed yet, it's that the 35 year old (or however old he was) John Terry was a better reader of the game than 26 year old (or however old he is) Tyrone Mings is, and so JT was able to use that reading to pass on to his colleagues. He showed a different aspect of leadership, and he had to, because he wasn't as quick as Tyrone is.

I think Martin Laursen and Tyrone Mings are quite similar in many respects. And they're both right near the top of my favourite Villa centre backs. God, Allan Evans, Tyrone and Martin Laursen in their back 4 bubble.

[est1874]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

I think that (and it's your mention of Laursen and Terry that made me think of this) that there's another aspect to this.

Which is, reading of the game. My perception is that John Terry was really good at reading what might happen before it happened and getting either himself, or a team mate in a position to stop it. I think Tyrone Mings and Martin Laursen are/were not quite as good at that aspect of defending. But Mings is every bit as vocal as Terry, every bit as demanding of team mates, and helpful to team mates in trouble.

So It's not leadership qualities that are not developed yet, it's that the 35 year old (or however old he was) John Terry was a better reader of the game than 26 year old (or however old he is) Tyrone Mings is, and so JT was able to use that reading to pass on to his colleagues. He showed a different aspect of leadership, and he had to, because he wasn't as quick as Tyrone is.

I think Martin Laursen and Tyrone Mings are quite similar in many respects. And they're both right near the top of my favourite Villa centre backs. God, Allan Evans, Tyrone and Martin Laursen in their back 4 bubble.

Martin Laursen was light years ahead of Tyrone Mings as a footballer, as a defender, as a leader.

There's no comparison for me. He's a good defender, but Mings doesn't get into my Top 10 Villa defenders, let alone top 4/5.

Maybe he will one day, but he's got no right currently to be named amongst the royalty you've mentioned, IMHO.

[blandy]

1 minute ago, est1874 said:

Mings doesn't get into my Top 10 Villa defenders

That's fine - though I said favourite, not "best". And the reason he's in my favourites list is not just as a footballer, but for his other stuff too. his engagement with fans, his down-to-earthness, his setting up the coaching schools, the anti-racism stuff and his general dignity and intelligence. Plus he's a damned fine player. Talismanic, I suppose. I do think the way he plays resembles Martin Laursen a bit.

[Delphinho123]

8 minutes ago, blandy said:

That's fine - though I said favourite, not "best". And the reason he's in my favourites list is not just as a footballer, but for his other stuff too. his engagement with fans, his down-to-earthness, his setting up the coaching schools, the anti-racism stuff and his general dignity and intelligence. Plus he's a damned fine player. Talismanic, I suppose. I do think the way he plays resembles Martin Laursen a bit.

Ahhh man, what a player. Behind McGrath, the best defender we've ever had. 
He was only fit for a couple of seasons, but WOW. 

[onmeedson]

Don't forget   Melberg and if you wanted a stopper Mcnaught, what would we give for a Dessy Bremner now

[villanmac]

Crazy how different people see things.

Wins everything in the air, makes blocks he has no right to and covers up for cb and full back mistakes. Take him out the team and we'd go to sh*t. Look at last season...our most wtf performances defensively were Southampton at home, Watford away, Leicester at home, Spurs at home where he was missing. He carried that backline at times last year. On the Laursen comparison,  he was diabolical with the ball at his feet, if we played out from the back the way we do now he'd be dropping a load of clangers. Ming's ability on the ball and to pick out a pass is lightyears above him. But then again, if there is even arguments over whether he is a leader(!) than i don't think its worth even getting onto to the football side.

[blandy]

46 minutes ago, villanmac said:

On the Laursen comparison,  he was diabolical with the ball at his feet,

That's harsh. The first time I saw Laursen play was before we signed him, but when we knew he was coming - maybe it was for Denmark, but I liked the way he didn't give the ball away, didn't try anything fancy, just passed it to someone in space. Sure Even ML would say he wasn't a natural footballer, but he was a natural defender and he didn't waste the ball, because he knew he wasn't perhaps the best in terms of football ability. Mings is a bit different in that he is better with the ball, but he makes mistakes with it as a consequence - he gets robbed of the ball too often. It's not massive but hopefully he will cut that side out a bit. Then again, it seems the modern way that managers want defenders to "play" more than even 10 years ago.