Tyrone Mings

[MrSmirch]

Some nice passing at times

 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, dubbs said:

Whats happened to our defence recently?  At the start of the season we were like a brick wall at the back.  Now we're like a fishing net. 

They have dragged us in to relegation form 4 defeats in 5......all the good early season work has been washed away like the sands on a beach......shocking.

The only redeeming grace was the arsenal game, another team with a soft underbelly......The results are piss poor in anyones language, we have slipped back to that insipid play of pre lockdown last season.

It will all be blamed on Ross Barkley, like some kind of convenient cop out for what is truthfully many poor displays from too many of our players.....we have lost that zest to win, midtable spells comfortable.

many will point to the misses, the injustice from the officials, the stats that would hoodwink any discerning fan, that didn't see the game......The truth is the Defending illustrated the mentality running right through the team benevolent, gift worthy, lacking conviction.

some will point to the recovery after coming back from another school boy gift in the box.....yes, yet another header, like men v boys......you see them goals ,watching young kids play, when the bigger ones just out muscle the slower growers, its quite pathetic at this level and so regular in its happening in our box.....we simply can't defend aerial balls in to the box.....I read an article the other day citing corners as not so easy to score these days, saying one in 20 is likely......damn me, they are like penalties for us to defend.

That result warrants careful examination by the coaches and to quit wallowing and dining out in the YES good football we was presiding over in the early season exchanges.

This is tosh guys..... I think we would have been disappointed with a draw.

I am absolutely fuming with those goals conceded.....I wish Dean was,

 

 

[Zatman]

Amazingly these types of rants never appeared when the last manager had us struggling vs teams like Preston in the 2nd tier. 

Not sure what people expected this season but beating Liverpool 7-2 has confused some fans

[MrBlack]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

They have dragged us in to relegation form 4 defeats in 5......all the good early season work has been washed away like the sands on a beach......shocking.

The only redeeming grace was the arsenal game, another team with a soft underbelly......The results are piss poor in anyones language, we have slipped back to that insipid play of pre lockdown last season.

It will all be blamed on Ross Barkley, like some kind of convenient cop out for what is truthfully many poor displays from too many of our players.....we have lost that zest to win, midtable spells comfortable.

many will point to the misses, the injustice from the officials, the stats that would hoodwink any discerning fan, that didn't see the game......The truth is the Defending illustrated the mentality running right through the team benevolent, gift worthy, lacking conviction.

some will point to the recovery after coming back from another school boy gift in the box.....yes, yet another header, like men v boys......you see them goals ,watching young kids play, when the bigger ones just out muscle the slower growers, its quite pathetic at this level and so regular in its happening in our box.....we simply can't defend aerial balls in to the box.....I read an article the other day citing corners as not so easy to score these days, saying one in 20 is likely......damn me, they are like penalties for us to defend.

That result warrants careful examination by the coaches and to quit wallowing and dining out in the YES good football we was presiding over in the early season exchanges.

This is tosh guys..... I think we would have been disappointed with a draw.

I am absolutely fuming with those goals conceded.....I wish Dean was,

 

 

If we were sitting on the same points having lost the earlier games we were expected to lose, and won these ones we were expecting to win but lost, would you be happier?

At this point,  we're still slightly above reasonable expectations, and the latest loss was a joke result brought on by our inability to take a penalty and being robbed by a farcical VAR decision. Meaning a draw was the correct result and a victory would have been fair.

The defending has been poor overall lately, but not insipid as you describe. We're not conceding mountains of chances and the goals are being generally well taken by our opposition (stats prove this that have been posted earlier, which you seen to want to ignore).

There is a theme developing, but it isn't there yet, and the exceptional early results mean we have some insurance and a knowledge that we're not a million miles away from where we need to be. Losing Barkley meant McGinn played further up field where he is totally ineffectual,  and Conor played deep where he is totally ineffectual. We can blame Dean for that, and hopefully he corrects it against Wolves.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, MrBlack said:

If we were sitting on the same points having lost the earlier games we were expected to lose, and won these ones we were expecting to win but lost, would you be happier?

At this point,  we're still slightly above reasonable expectations, and the latest loss was a joke result brought on by our inability to take a penalty and being robbed by a farcical VAR decision. Meaning a draw was the correct result and a victory would have been fair.

The defending has been poor overall lately, but not insipid as you describe. We're not conceding mountains of chances and the goals are being generally well taken by our opposition (stats prove this that have been posted earlier, which you seen to want to ignore).

There is a theme developing, but it isn't there yet, and the exceptional early results mean we have some insurance and a knowledge that we're not a million miles away from where we need to be. Losing Barkley meant McGinn played further up field where he is totally ineffectual,  and Conor played deep where he is totally ineffectual. We can blame Dean for that, and hopefully he corrects it against Wolves.

We can't blame Dean for not having the right kind of players to bring on, in times of need, because we don't have them......but we can blame him ,if he fails to strengthen in the right area's in January, provided he is given the funds.

I am not sure how to answer the highlighted bit, because it bears no relevance at all......I have already said we done great in the early exchanges......we have just gone from the sublime to the ridiculous in a matter of months.....We are dining out on the first 4 games and indoing so have become very wasteful of those valuable points.

In my humble opinion, The Leeds game derailed us and we haven't recovered mentally, it has ripped the confidence out of us......We have to FIGHT back.

Teams don't need mountains of chances against us.....That is the essence of the point......we are sloppy in front of our own goal area.....they only need a couple of chances and we are toast, always expecting Jack to bail us out....its not right, not right at all.....He looks like he has been in a battle, when he comes off the pitch.....who else does?......we need to open our eyes.

The pattern/theme needs to be arrested, we left it too long last season to deal with it and lockdown saved us......Folk can blame who they like, its not blame, I am looking for its a reality check, that we have issues that need urgent attention.

Its no point in wallowing in self righteous wonderful football comments, when there is a clear issue with us defending in most cases, innocuous opposition play.

[Keyblade]

15 hours ago, dubbs said:

Whats happened to our defence recently?  At the start of the season we were like a brick wall at the back.  Now we're like a fishing net. 

We were playing Sheffield United, Fulham and Leicester who barely create any chances. Not like they were peppering our goal.

[Dale]

16 hours ago, TRO said:

The results are piss poor in anyones language, we have slipped back to that insipid play of pre lockdown last season

The results aren't good. But insipid play, come on, we blew West Ham away, just failed to finish. Their goal haul was more than they'd get from those chances in any other game, and ours less. Same for Brighton. 

People gushed about Southampton but on average you'd expect less than 10% of direct free kicks to go in. The only game where we looked lost was Leeds. 

We can improve the defending, but the fundamentals otherwise are there. Just need someone other than Trez to be presented with sitters. 

[Mjvilla]

On 01/12/2020 at 13:40, TRO said:

They have dragged us in to relegation form 4 defeats in 5......all the good early season work has been washed away like the sands on a beach......shocking.

The only redeeming grace was the arsenal game, another team with a soft underbelly......The results are piss poor in anyones language, we have slipped back to that insipid play of pre lockdown last season.

It will all be blamed on Ross Barkley, like some kind of convenient cop out for what is truthfully many poor displays from too many of our players.....we have lost that zest to win, midtable spells comfortable.

many will point to the misses, the injustice from the officials, the stats that would hoodwink any discerning fan, that didn't see the game......The truth is the Defending illustrated the mentality running right through the team benevolent, gift worthy, lacking conviction.

some will point to the recovery after coming back from another school boy gift in the box.....yes, yet another header, like men v boys......you see them goals ,watching young kids play, when the bigger ones just out muscle the slower growers, its quite pathetic at this level and so regular in its happening in our box.....we simply can't defend aerial balls in to the box.....I read an article the other day citing corners as not so easy to score these days, saying one in 20 is likely......damn me, they are like penalties for us to defend.

That result warrants careful examination by the coaches and to quit wallowing and dining out in the YES good football we was presiding over in the early season exchanges.

This is tosh guys..... I think we would have been disappointed with a draw.

I am absolutely fuming with those goals conceded.....I wish Dean was,

 

 

That's just simply not true, is it?

Pre lockdown we were awful, never looked like getting a result. There was no work rate, no desire, we wre going down. 100% going down.

We've lost 4 out of 5 yes, we are all very frustrated. But 3 out of those 4 we could've comfortably got a result. Leeds was poor. Certainly the last 2 games could/should have resulted in 4 points minimum. We couldn't say that pre lockdown. 

If you think we are at pre lockdown level of performance right now, even with the defeats, then I'm lost as to your take on football. I can't agree with it at all.

[villalad21]

48 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

That's just simply not true, is it?

Pre lockdown we were awful, never looked like getting a result. There was no work rate, no desire, we wre going down. 100% going down.

We've lost 4 out of 5 yes, we are all very frustrated. But 3 out of those 4 we could've comfortably got a result. Leeds was poor. Certainly the last 2 games could/should have resulted in 4 points minimum. We couldn't say that pre lockdown. 

If you think we are at pre lockdown level of performance right now, even with the defeats, then I'm lost as to your take on football. I can't agree with it at all.

We really do though.

Post lockdown we were incredibly hard to break down and massively improved on defensive set pieces.

Now every attack against us seem to go in the back of the net. We again look frail on defensive set pieces.

Instructing McGinn to mark big and powerful centre backs i understand very little of.

We are getting more points this season because we've purchased better players, but i am starting to see a lot of the issues from last season creeping back in tbh.

We won't go down this season. We have too good of a team. But i can't see us ever surpassing mid table if these issues don't get adressed.

[Mjvilla]

31 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We really do though.

Post lockdown we were incredibly hard to break down and massively improved on defensive set pieces.

Now every attack against us seem to go in the back of the net. We again look frail on defensive set pieces.

Instructing McGinn to mark big and powerful centre backs i understand very little of.

We are getting more points this season because we've purchased better players, but i am starting to see a lot of the issues from last season creeping back in tbh.

We won't go down this season. We have too good of a team. But i can't see us ever surpassing mid table if these issues don't get adressed.

So, you're quite happy to say we are the same as pre-lockdown and that bad. And then say this final paragraph? Pre-lockdown, we were going down. Without any question. What do you think? Smith to take a team going down to a team who's top half in 1 transfer window. This after promotion against odds, building a squad entirely, cup finals. He's achieved a hell of a lot since he came here. It's you who keeps pushing that bar higher everytime he gets there. 

'we won't go up' - go up

'we won't survive' - we survive 

'We won't get past midtable' - why don't we wait and see huh.

You've been wrong enough to know I should trust Smith above your opinion.

 

[TRO]

10 hours ago, Dale said:

The results aren't good. But insipid play, come on, we blew West Ham away, just failed to finish. Their goal haul was more than they'd get from those chances in any other game, and ours less. Same for Brighton. 

People gushed about Southampton but on average you'd expect less than 10% of direct free kicks to go in. The only game where we looked lost was Leeds. 

We can improve the defending, but the fundamentals otherwise are there. Just need someone other than Trez to be presented with sitters. 

what you do in both boxes is a part of the game.....you can't just isolate the work in the boxes and say we played well......Its like a boxer winning the rounds on points and then getting knocked down a few times, losing on a knock out and saying but I boxed well.

Its all part of the game.

We were 4 goals to the worst against Southampton, with Romeu and Ward Prowse dominating the centre of the pitch.....We conceded 2 sloppy free kicks due to our failure to cut out work from the opposition......then we failed to close down Ings, so he could score a training ground style strike......Watch the game.....you cannot stand off these players to the degree we do and expect to get anything from the game.

I agree with your reference to Leeds.....but that game has damaged our belief, we was playing with a swagger, before that.....West Ham admitted they played badly, what does that tell you, we failed to impose ourselves.

Jack is playing like a one man team at present and the others need to step their game up.....we have too many players looking for others to bail them out.

Some teams, don't play well outfield, but just score in the box and defend well at the other end and win games.......to be a good team, you have to do it all.....to be a good team you also need variation in your players to avoid predictability.......we have just gone from the sublime to the ridiculous in the matter of weeks.....it has to stop.

Edited December 2, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

So, you're quite happy to say we are the same as pre-lockdown and that bad. And then say this final paragraph? Pre-lockdown, we were going down. Without any question. What do you think? Smith to take a team going down to a team who's top half in 1 transfer window. This after promotion against odds, building a squad entirely, cup finals. He's achieved a hell of a lot since he came here. It's you who keeps pushing that bar higher everytime he gets there. 

'we won't go up' - go up

'we won't survive' - we survive 

'We won't get past midtable' - why don't we wait and see huh.

You've been wrong enough to know I should trust Smith above your opinion.

 

• So, are you happy with the recent results 4 defeats in the last 5 games?
• what do you think has been the turn around from such a positive start....we are now 15th in form league in the last 6 games?
• Why do you think we were so comprehensively beaten by Leeds on the back of such a fine start.?
• What do you think will change to get us back to winning ways?

Dean Smith is the only person to trust, he is the only one to get us back to winning ways.....we are just giving our opinions as spectators.....why don't you tell us yours?

 

[Mjvilla]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

what you do in both boxes is a part of the game.....you can't just isolate the work in the boxes and say we played well......Its like a boxer winning the rounds on points and then getting knocked down a few times, losing on a knock out and saying but I boxed well.

Its all part of the game.

We were 4 goals to the worst against Southampton, with Romeu and Ward Prowse dominating the centre of the pitch.....We conceded 2 sloppy free kicks due to our failure to cut out work from the opposition......then we failed to close down Ings, so he could score a training ground style strike......Watch to game.....you cannot stand off these players to the degree we do and expect to get anything from the game.

I agree with your reference to Leeds.....but that game has damaged our belief, we was playing with a swagger, before that.....West Ham admitted they played badly, what does that tell you.

Jack is playing like a one man team at present and the others need to step their game up.....we have too many players looking for others to bail them out.

Some teams, don't play well outfield, but just score in the box and defend well at the other end and win games.......to be a good team, you have to do it all.....to be a good team you also need variation in your players to avoid predictability.......we have just gone from the sublime to the ridiculous in the matter of weeks.....it has to stop.

None of this explains how we are insipid and back to pre-lockdown levels of performance.

That level of performance is so far removed from what is actually on the pitch then I have to question it.

[villalad21]

18 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

So, you're quite happy to say we are the same as pre-lockdown and that bad. And then say this final paragraph? Pre-lockdown, we were going down. Without any question. What do you think? Smith to take a team going down to a team who's top half in 1 transfer window. This after promotion against odds, building a squad entirely, cup finals. He's achieved a hell of a lot since he came here. It's you who keeps pushing that bar higher everytime he gets there. 

'we won't go up' - go up

'we won't survive' - we survive 

'We won't get past midtable' - why don't we wait and see huh.

You've been wrong enough to know I should trust Smith above your opinion.

 

We have conceded 11 goals the last 5 games buddy. 2.2 goals goals conceded on average per game

There are valid reasons to feel concerned.

[villa89]

On 01/12/2020 at 13:21, MrSmirch said:

Some nice passing at times

He thinks he's Zidane on the ball. Less raking hollywood passes and more concentration please Tyrone.

[Mjvilla]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

• So, are you happy with the recent results 4 defeats in the last 5 games?
• what do you think has been the turn around from such a positive start....we are now 15th in form league in the last 6 games?
• Why do you think we were so comprehensively beaten by Leeds on the back of such a fine start.?
• What do you think will change to get us back to winning ways?

Dean Smith is the only person to trust, he is the only one to get us back to winning ways.....we are just giving our opinions as spectators.....why don't you tell us yours?

 

No, but I can see a better level of performance against last season. I can see the improvements against the games we lost last season. Last season we lost and it was inevitable. Can you honestly say, when watching the west ham and Brighton game, it was inevitable we were going to lose? Right up to the end, we deserved and I thought we would get something from the game.

I think we had a poor game against Leeds, we struggled against the work rate. But still missed chances to go ahead which would've resulted in something very different. And this was the beginning of the turnaround in form. But, not performance level in my opinion.

We've had some bad luck, some wonder goals against, and some lapses in concentration defensively 100%. But to compare it to pre-lockdown is verging on the insane to me. 

Honestly, cut out the defensive lapses and we will win games. You talk of losing the midfield battle and the like... We won the midfield battle comfortably against West ham. We dominated the ball, created chances, fought hard and battled well. We still lost. 

I honestly believe a couple of defeats and a defeat when playing well will be a positive in the long run.... Someone like Mings.. I think our good run and playing for England has made him think he is better than he is. Hopefully, he will go back to basics and doing the defending right. Might just kick them up the arse a bit.

Look, my only issue with your argument at this moment and Ive had to come and post especially about this, is the comparisons to pre-lockdown. It's nothing like that. It really isn't. That's hyperbole at is most dramatic level.

 

 

 

[Mjvilla]

14 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We have conceded 11 goals the last 5 games buddy. 2.2 goals goals conceded on average per game

There are valid reasons to feel concerned.

Don't worry, just ignore my whole post and quote our defensive record in 50% of our games this season. That's fine.

[YouUnastanFren]

Nobody is happy with the results in 4 of our past 5 games, but surely everyone is happy with the performances in 4 out 5 of them. We absolutely dominated the majority of the games against SOU, ARS, BHA and WHU.

Results are a different thing to performances, they usually roughly even out over a season but in such a small sample as 5 games (and especially individual games) it's not unusual for them to not reflect each other.

IMHO the performances against WHU and BHA were far better than the ones against SHU and LEI but the results were obviously far worse.

I get that it's disappointing that our results haven't reflected our performances recently but if they had then we'd have 20+ points and be top of the league right now. Is that really the only acceptable level of outcome?

We're one of the most exciting teams in the league going forward and we have allowed very few chances against us all season. If you're not optimistic about our potential now you are never going to be.

[Farlz]

Mings is fine, I don't understand the big drama sometimes. 

He's not quite as good as I once thought, his stint in the Championship was incredible. Mings is your standard average to decent Premier League CB, he's going to be great some weeks and crap others. I mean he wasn't even that bad against West Ham ffs, apart from his standard dodgy Cruyff turn he had nothing to do. 

This idea every time we lose a game that he needs to be urgently replaced or something is ridiculous. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

We have conceded 11 goals the last 5 games buddy. 2.2 goals goals conceded on average per game

There are valid reasons to feel concerned.

its like pushing water up a hill....I don't think we should bother.

Edited December 2, 2020 by TRO