Dean Smith

[blandy]

25 minutes ago, terrytini said:

All true, but equally all Managers have targets, set by their bosses, by themselves, and by the fans.

I see no reason to give him a free pass any more than anyone else....so, whilst I’m as much in the dark as anyone as to what he’s been told by the owners, I’ve formed my own view on what I think it is reasonable to expect....and I’d be amazed if most didn’t.

And I doubt very much the Owners have left things open......(although his Appointment suggests an acceptance it may not happen this year).

For me, two things.

From a performance side, a slow but steady improvement in how we play football, because currently it’s poor. But I’d expect a discernible change in approach sooner, if not immediately. By which I mean, we set out to Win, rather than to Not Lose.

From a Results side, I think it’s reasonable to expect a finish in the Play Off positions ( I mean , wasn’t one of the commonest complaints about Bruce that ‘anybody’ could achieve that with this squad ?..........not that ‘anybody’ could of course, but the point is still valid)"......such a finish requires 7 points every 4 games, (2 Wins and a Draw, and 1 Defeat). That’s perfectly reasonable as a target and an expectation, in my view.

We're each different, but the way I look at things is different again. Now he's here, he deserves at least 2 seasons to work his magic and get the club promoted. Bruce, I said the same for (though I had zero faith or belief he'd succeed and I never wanted him here to start with). But basically  any manager needs some time to implement their plans etc. DS is here, he deserves support and respect. I'd be surprised if we make the play-offs, really. I'm expecting the mix of a massively unbalanced squad and FFP realities (perhaps player sales in January) to put promotion out of reach this season.

I think we're looking at 3 years, now for promotion - next season or the one after.

Short term "get us up this season" stuff is dead, now, IMO. Its time has passed as a remotely viable way to proceed. Now it's got to be done properly and not be built on sand

[KHV]

Just now, blandy said:

We're each different, but the way I look at things is different again. Now he's here, he deserves at least 2 seasons to work his magic and get the club promoted. Bruce, I said the same for (though I had zero faith or belief he'd succeed and I never wanted him here to start with). But basically  any manager needs some time to implement their plans etc. DS is here, he deserves support and respect. I'd be surprised if we make the play-offs, really. I'm expecting the mix of a massively unbalanced squad and FFP realities (perhaps player sales in January) to put promotion out of reach this season.

I think we're looking at 3 years, now for promotion - next season or the one after.

Short term "get us up this season" stuff is dead, now, IMO. Its time has passed as a remotely viable way to proceed. Now it's got to be done properly and not be built on sand

I love your optimism. After this season there will have to be huge cutbacks and a total overhaul of the entire 1st team. Realistically we cannot really afford anybody's wages within this 1st team squad.

It will be a total rebuild and it will have to be done cheaply. I would not be at all surprised if we do a Leeds/Man City within the next two years

[Nigel]

13 minutes ago, blandy said:

We're each different, but the way I look at things is different again. Now he's here, he deserves at least 2 seasons to work his magic and get the club promoted. Bruce, I said the same for (though I had zero faith or belief he'd succeed and I never wanted him here to start with). But basically  any manager needs some time to implement their plans etc. DS is here, he deserves support and respect. I'd be surprised if we make the play-offs, really. I'm expecting the mix of a massively unbalanced squad and FFP realities (perhaps player sales in January) to put promotion out of reach this season.

I think we're looking at 3 years, now for promotion - next season or the one after.

Short term "get us up this season" stuff is dead, now, IMO. Its time has passed as a remotely viable way to proceed. Now it's got to be done properly and not be built on sand

Fully agree, this is not the short term option thus the short term goal has to be changed accordingly. 

If we wanted an assault this year we would (and should) have gone with a similar manager, as would be able to get instant results.  If we are to change our whole playing philosophy there WILL be a lot of dropped results, it's madness to think anything else.

At this moment I would bet 99% of us are happy they went this way...but we have to accept the fallout! 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Nigel

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

9 hours ago, Stinglikeabee said:

Lol. Pretty much as long as my post.

I'll try to answer in the best way possible.

Brentford believe that has we invested in our fragile squad in January 2015, we might have gone on to get promotion. It was rejected by Warburton (we had a different setup at that time) and he and our owner fell out. Our squad was running on empty by the time we played Middlesbrough and we lost in the play-offs, having played great football with a small squad.

The strategy was to improve on the entire squad and keep Brentford playing attractive football in the hope that we might reach similar levels. The first season after the play-offs, we were far away from the standards required, the second season also, but last season, we had assembled the strongest squad we had ever seen coupled with the brand of football we were playing, expectations had risen. It is my opinion that we failed to make the most of that squad, as having watched Championship football for the last few years, I think I can recognise a true challenger and the ones that won't. Last season, Brentford should have challenged. This season, I'm going to be really irritated if we don't make the play-offs. Our methods, systems, analytics, scouting methods, mean that we can compete on a much more level playing field than if we hadn't employed such methods. Our squad and sales of players in the last few seasons speak for themselves. We have, on merit, established a reputation for being a quality footballing side, recruiting young athletic players who are comfortable on the ball (as recently recognised by Bielsa who sung our praises last week), and whilst we lack a bit of experience to challenge for automatic spots, I think we're good for play-offs. All this and we're constantly rebuilding our squad, improving it, whilst players depart. Pretty amazing in my opinion, as most clubs our size lose players and crumble.

I don't doubt for a second that Dean, having been a cog in the Brentford machine, was rather a large cog. I'm not disputing many of the good things he did for us. The footballing philosophy partly comes from the top though. It's instilled into the B team and, when we had an academy, all other age groups. That's why we've been able to promote players from within and invest in young players who might not get a chance in bigger clubs. Dean then coaches the team but obviously has a huge influence on daily and matchday matters as he's the one ultimately responsible. He's renowned for bringing the young players through, inspiring confidence in them, but he's not so renowned for his overall setup of the team for teams that "have figured us out". There seems to be a distinct lack of a plan B if our footballing style doesn't work as effectively, and I'd say that we struggle to grind results out. Put it this way, we don't tend to win ugly. And that's what costs us points. 

In some ways, with Villa being a different setup with a squad that has experience at a higher level, that might work to his advantage. Our squad deficiencies are different to yours, and let's see how Dean sets up your team to suit his style. As I said, he had a pretty good squad when he first came to us, not as good as now, but I was surprised that despite the reputation that he had built at Walsall, we were playing direct football for most of the first year he was with us. 

With regards to our scouting, recruitment and analytics. It's massively overlooked by our DoF's, not the coaches. The head coach gives them a brief and they regularly discuss players, but the DoF's then draw up a shortlist and then go for the players. In fact, a number of our signings have remarked at how impressed that we had been tracking them for years. We recruit young British players, and young Europeans. We offer young promising players something that a lot of bigger clubs cannot, and that's regular first team football, playing a style of football that we already know suits them. On negotiating with players, they are shown a presentation of themselves and hope they fit into the Brentford way, where they are told things about their game that they hadn't realised themselves. We also offer them no restrictions in movement should we get the right offer for them, and therefore we tend to sign some extremely promising players. And that's amazing thing. Our owner's very secretive analytics, coupled with an extensive scouting network that covers every league in Europe, means that we see things like, for example, how a winger performs in front of large crowds, under pressure against two defenders, in a team that tends to dominate possession, against a left footed defender who is short and quick, in the "danger" area of the wing. Stats like these are compiled and analysed to demonstrate consistencies within players, how that fits in with our style of football, and areas of improvement that require coaching. There's actually a lot more than that, including mental attributes, but that's about as much information as us fans can work out! 

So, why is this relevant to your question? Well, it's a unique system that Villa doesn't have. Smith knew that he was getting what he asked for and the real challenges have been getting players to adjust to language, if they're foreign, so that they can truly understand the style. 

The other aspect that I need to clarify for you as best as I can, is the matchday analytics. As our owner has based his entire fortune on analytics in sport, it's employed on matchdays to feedback information to the bench so they can make informed decisions from different viewpoints. Truthfully, bring on the bench means you only see one perspective of the game. From different angles and much higher up positions, is possible to see other things. That data is collected and provided to the coaching team at half time so that they can decide whether to make any changes. Obviously it's all used post match too.

That said, the way I've talked it up makes it sound like we ought to be in the Premier League by now. But we're a club with a ground capacity of 12,000, no corporate facilities, and we still lose money every week. Our losses are partly negated by our profit we make from player sales and from owner investment to fund our losses. 

Anyway, hope that answers some of your questions. 

Let's just buy Brentford.

Sorted

 

(Thanks for the input mate)

[blandy]

2 minutes ago, KHV said:

I would not be at all surprised if we do a Leeds/Man City within the next two years

What do you mean by that KHV? (genuinely curious) - 'cus Leeds and Man City have headed in different directions completely.

[KHV]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

What do you mean by that KHV? (genuinely curious) - 'cus Leeds and Man City have headed in different directions completely.

Drop to League 1

[TRO]

53 minutes ago, terrytini said:

All true, but equally all Managers have targets, set by their bosses, by themselves, and by the fans.

I see no reason to give him a free pass any more than anyone else....so, whilst I’m as much in the dark as anyone as to what he’s been told by the owners, I’ve formed my own view on what I think it is reasonable to expect....and I’d be amazed if most didn’t.

And I doubt very much the Owners have left things open......(although his Appointment suggests an acceptance it may not happen this year).

For me, two things.

From a performance side, a slow but steady improvement in how we play football, because currently it’s poor. But I’d expect a discernible change in approach sooner, if not immediately. By which I mean, we set out to Win, rather than to Not Lose.

From a Results side, I think it’s reasonable to expect a finish in the Play Off positions ( I mean , wasn’t one of the commonest complaints about Bruce that ‘anybody’ could achieve that with this squad ?..........not that ‘anybody’ could of course, but the point is still valid)"......such a finish requires 7 points every 4 games, (2 Wins and a Draw, and 1 Defeat). That’s perfectly reasonable as a target and an expectation, in my view.

I don't know how long it will take to get the bad habits removed from this team.....i don't know how long it will take to get the balance right......I don't know how long it will take to get performances from centre backs and the goalkeeper.

only when these things are fixed do i think its reasonable to be looking at league placings.

first things first.

i understand there is no free ride, but equally to challenge for promotion, you have to be prepared, pardon the pun.....because right now, we are not.

How long these things take, i have no idea......i guess many factors are dependent.

Edited October 12, 2018 by TRO

[Nigel]

2 minutes ago, KHV said:

Drop to League 1

We won't drop a division! 

Even if the worst was to happen and we get docked points and lose some star names I think we will be ok. 

 

[Demitri_C]

I hope the press conference doesnt become a terry-fest with the reporters. This is about smith.  He is the head coach terry is there to assist smith.

 

[praisedmambo]

Aren't we four points from the playoffs? I still have hope. We just need to make the most of the talent we have and to go from there. One step at a time of course. 

[bannedfromHandV]

21 minutes ago, Nigel said:

We won't drop a division! 

Even if the worst was to happen and we get docked points and lose some star names I think we will be ok. 

 

If we don't go up this season we'll almost certainly have to sell anyone with any kind of value, we'll be left with kids, mediocre loan signings and Micah Richards. 

I think we will sooner see league 1 than the PL if we do not go up this season. 

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, praisedmambo said:

Aren't we four points from the playoffs? I still have hope. We just need to make the most of the talent we have and to go from there. One step at a time of course. 

only 108 points left to play for though...

we are 10 points off 1st, 9 points off automatic, not suggesting either of those will happen but its way too early in the season to say that they can't either

i think smith is a long term option but terry getting hold of the players and getting us back to a level of professionalism ensuring we bother to turn up every week is a short term fix and with the attacking options we have its a fix that should see us getting better results quickly

[Condimentalist]

21 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I hope the press conference doesnt become a terry-fest with the reporters. This is about smith.  He is the head coach terry is there to assist smith.

 

Terry shouldn't be there at all. 

[tomav84]

21 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I hope the press conference doesnt become a terry-fest with the reporters. This is about smith.  He is the head coach terry is there to assist smith.

 

is it normal for assistants to be present at press conferences? i'll be surprised if he's there

[Jareth]

I'm optimistic we'll see improvement quite quickly. This current team have shown in matches some very good play, I think the skill and ability is there for 2/3rds of the team - with some disciplined coaching and an actual game plan there's no reason they can't improve fast. Obvs we have a defence to sort properly in Jan, but I still think we'll improve a lot from the level we've been at. 

[terrytini]

59 minutes ago, blandy said:

We're each different, but the way I look at things is different again. Now he's here, he deserves at least 2 seasons to work his magic and get the club promoted. Bruce, I said the same for (though I had zero faith or belief he'd succeed and I never wanted him here to start with). But basically  any manager needs some time to implement their plans etc. DS is here, he deserves support and respect. I'd be surprised if we make the play-offs, really. I'm expecting the mix of a massively unbalanced squad and FFP realities (perhaps player sales in January) to put promotion out of reach this season.

I think we're looking at 3 years, now for promotion - next season or the one after.

Short term "get us up this season" stuff is dead, now, IMO. Its time has passed as a remotely viable way to proceed. Now it's got to be done properly and not be built on sand

I respect you have a different view.

I completely agree “ get us up this season” should be dead, no question.

I don’t agree that “ get us in the Play Offs “ is unreasonable - for the same reason I didn’t think it was an acceptable goal or cause for praise for Bruce.......it really isn’t asking a lot.

Regardless of us being a couple of players short at the back there is still talent a plenty in the squad. 

Indeed the Squad, as opposed to the First Eleven, matches anybody.  But even if one takes the view it does not, it surely has enough to match whoever else would otherwise finish 6th !

It requires little more than winning half our games and drawing some.

Anyone in this League NOT in contention for the Play Offs, is likely to be not a million miles away from the Relegation Zone for at least some of the Season.

And Bruce has fixed us hasn’t he ? We aren’t the basket case he inherited, surely ? The mentality, the Winning Away, the scoring late goals, the character ? That’s not all disappeared down the plug hole despite what some ( @TRO seems to think so, in a most ironic turnaround !).....

Im afraid I would see an ambition of no more than preparing for Promotion NEXT year as profoundly disappointing. I have no figures on the subject, but I suspect I’m not the only one.

In fact, in the Promotion thread, some are arguing a tilt at Top 2 is still on. Whilst I think that’s too much ( needing more than 2 Points per game) I have more empathy with that view than the idea that the best we should aim for is 7 th.

Edited October 12, 2018 by terrytini

[TRO]

I am looking forward to a new way of playing and accept that may take time.

However, i am not lost on how Cardiff last season and Middlesbrough accumulate points.

I am not saying that i want Aston Villa to play their way under Dean Smith....but i am aware that out and out attacking football can be incomplete too, especially in this league.

Wolves and Fulham, last season showed how they could defend and attack in unison...they played in a style that kept the ball away from the opposition.

In recent years despite the perceived quality of individual players, we have failed to keep the ball for meaningful periods and equally give it away generously, when we have it.....it was just simply sloppy and what appeared "not worked on "football.

We were simply being short changed as spectators.

[NurembergVillan]

6 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

is it normal for assistants to be present at press conferences? i'll be surprised if he's there

It's happened at Villa before and the assistant in question was a former player too.

[terrytini]

34 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't know how long it will take to get the bad habits removed from this team.....i don't know how long it will take to get the balance right......I don't know how long it will take to get performances from centre backs and the goalkeeper.

only when these things are fixed do i think its reasonable to be looking at league placings.

first things first.

i understand there is no free ride, but equally to challenge for promotion, you have to be prepared, pardon the pun.....because right now, we are not.

How long these things take, i have no idea......i guess many factors are dependent.

Fair enough. Our consensus didn’t last long Mate !

We are 1 CB and 1 GK down on last year. And UP in many other positions, including Manager.

Just under 2 Points per game really isn’t asking too much in my view.

I will be looking at League placings from the Off !

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

I respect you have a different view.

I completely agree “ get us up this season” should be dead, no question.

I don’t agree that “ get us in the Play Offs “ is unreasonable - for the same reason I didn’t think it was an acceptable goal or cause for praise for Bruce.......it really isn’t asking a lot.

Regardless of us being a couple of players short at the back there is still talent a plenty in the squad. 

Indeed the Squad, as opposed to the First Eleven, matches anybody.  But even if one takes the view it does not, it surely has enough to match whoever else would otherwise finish 6th !

It requires little more than winning half our games and drawing some.

Anyone in this League NOT in contention for the Play Offs, is likely to be not a million miles away from the Relegation Zone for at least some of the Season.

And Bruce has fixed us hasn’t he ? We aren’t the basket case he inherited, surely ? The mentality, the Winning Away, the scoring late goals, the character ? That’s not all disappeared down the plug hole despite what some ( @TRO seems to think so, in a most ironic turnaround !).....

Im afraid I would see an ambition of now more than preparing for Promotion NEXT year as profoundly disappointing. I have no figures on the subject, but I suspect I’m not the only one.

In fact, in the Promotion thread, some are arguing a tilt at Top 2 is still on. Whilst I think that’s too much ( needing more than 2 Points per game) I have more empathy with that view than the idea that the best we should aim for is 7 th.

My most ironic turn around Terry is based on what i see.

and this team presently is now resembling the one SB took over.....not quite as bad granted, but not too far off .....such is the deterioration in our performances this season.

Hence his going.

We do not resemble the resilience of last season....The PNE game didn't require a comeback, the capitulation, shouldn't have happened in the first place.

different players granted, but just saying why my opinion changed.

Edited October 12, 2018 by TRO