Dean Smith

[A'Villan]

3 minutes ago, Made In Aston said:

Consistency will be the biggest issue. Sometimes it isn't possible to play pretty football and you have to win ugly - like many of Bruce's successes. Smith strikes me as a bit of a Martinez... Gets plaudits for good football but doesn't win enough to be a success. I hope DS learns to adapt and, if he does, we will be a force. 

Leeds vs Brentford @ Elland Rd this season.

Smith knows Leeds are at home and under Bielsa are the third highest scoring team in the division.

Brentford set up to counter attack, respecting that it will be inevitable that Leeds have their share of possession.

The plan is to disrupt their sequences with effective pressing and positioning off the ball and hit them on the break, committing men forward to give the attack impetus. and options.

This is a success. By HT Brentford have had 8 shots on goal, 7 on target. Leeds will finish the game with a pass completion rate of 70% due to the pressing from Brentford.

Brentford open the scoring in the 2nd half through a penalty where Leeds were exposed once again.

It is only through an 88th minute equaliser that Leeds manage to come away with anything from the game.

I will also mention that Brentford put 5 past Rotherham this season.

I too don't want to get swept up in my own optimism and will wait and see what comes.

That said, it's very hard to imagine Smith's setup to be on par with Bruce's in terms of how we are organised, the quality of chances created and the nullification of opposition threats.

As Smith says in that Nike training video, you need to be able to utilise a variety of skills appropriate to the situation.

I think the success, if it comes, will be from the little improvements in approach that will add up and hopefully gain enough momentum to see us promoted.

[CosmicVillan]

3 hours ago, Johnnyp said:

Can't beat Bruceys 4 k's though

Kebabs. Kebabs. Kebabs. Kebabs. 

Kabbages

[CosmicVillan]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

Hutton will struggle with these Rs. 

Don't knock Bruce's 4 R's

Right Back, Right Back, Right Back, Right Back

[CosmicVillan]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

I think I'd rather watch that training session than most of the games we've played in the last 5 years.

You probably could...Looks like St George's Park

[A'Villan]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

Hutton will struggle with these Rs. 

You know he will. Donkey touch and all.

If it was Run Relentlessly, Rinse, Repeat, then Hutton would be setting the standards.

Seriously though, I expect Hutton will give his all to whatever's asked of him. No half measures.

We won't see him do anything delicate or aesthetically pleasing, though we may see his commitment be enough to learn some new tricks and integrate.

Also, any occasion we adopt a pressing approach, Hutton might be our best asset.

[ciggiesnbeer]

The Alan Hutton that played against Bristol last season would be the first pick of any manager who wanted to play  creative , attacking and technical football. I am serious, if you can go watch that game (and a few that happened after) he was every inch the modern fullback.

You can go look up his stats here for that game

https://ng.whoscored.com/Matches/1192553/Live/England-Championship-2017-2018-Aston-Villa-Bristol-City

I would say an attacking full back, playing out of position incidentally, who has a 92% pass rate and made more dribbles than any other player would be exactly the kind of player to fit in with Dean Smith's philosophy.

Edited October 11, 2018 by ciggiesnbeer

[Keyblade]

Can we move past this myth that we played Brentford off the park this season? The oddity of playing a team off the park and scraping a stoppage time draw notwithstanding, Brentford had 90% of the gilt-edged chances in the game which were like 5 or 6 not even including the goals.

If there was ever a match that contrasted the tactical nous of the respective managers it was that one. We huffed and puffed and had the lion's share of possession, but Brentford were more than happy to accommodate that. While we were pumping crosses into the box (and creating half-chances), Brentford were cutting our defence open with their movement and their passing time and again especially in the second half.

It's one thing to have reservations on his tenure which I totally understand, but let's not disrespect a forward-thinking manager and his approach to the game by comparing him to our rigid, stuck-in-his-ways former incumbent, especially using a game where to the discerning eye, it was he who came out on top in football terms.

[Stinglikeabee]

Wotcha all. Brentford fan here. Quite happy to see Dean get his dream move. He did a decent job at Brentford but the feeling is that he didn't really quite achieve as much as he could have, but who knows?

Just a potted history but Smith came into Brentford at a time when we were happy with Lee Carsley as our caretaker, who took over from a disaster of a Dutch manager. What struck me was that Smith didn't really do anything with the team and a run of 10 defeats in 13 games in the league was followed by a run of 7 wins in 9 to convince the fans that he had the ability to take us into his full first season.

His next season was interesting because of our inconsistency. I remember clearly that our style of football wasn't all that (inconsistent) and we had a streaky patch where a fair few fans were calling for his head because we felt our squad was underachieving. However, a patient board and his ability to turn results around saw form improve and we finished the season quite strongly to finish midtable. It was at the end of this particular season when we started to play some really attractive football and therefore convinced Brentford fans, after 18 months, that his honeymoon period was over. 

Into last season and the style of football had carried on from the end of the previous season and we looked great on the eye but the results were appalling. However, it was only a matter of time before results would pick up and they did. The football was outstanding at times, with a squad that we felt should be in the playoffs. But, our inability to counter most of the big clubs, sloppiness, concession of late goals, meant that we kept dropping points far too often and we finished outside the playoff places. Fans glossed over it by saying how close we were and the unfortunate start to the season.

Into this season, and we've played some great football again. Easy on the eye but has flaws. It requires unbelievable fitness levels and if we're only slightly off our game, we can look really ordinary. We also have struggled against teams who press us high for the entire game. Dean Smith just didn't seem to have an idea on how to counter this, as for me, the signs were there last season. Teams knew that if they could force mistakes against us high up the pitch, we looked very vulnerable. 

So, whilst our football is easy on the eye, whilst Dean Smith is undoubtedly a great man manager, I'm concerned for him at Villa. He won't have or is unlikely to have the same level of patience shown. It took over 14 months for our team to start showing the attractive football that we play. And our recruitment policy has always been to sign players who are comfortable on the ball. We had a few streaks of poor results that put him under pressure, but against pretty awful teams. 

Dean Smith never seemed to get a grip on teams that could press us for 90 minutes and a lot of Brentford fans will argue that the improvement in our style of football coincided with the appointment of ex-Brondby manager, Thomas Frank, who is tipped to be the new Brentford manager.

Brentford fans also talk of him being a cog in the machine. He benefits from a scouting system that has come about from our owner and his two DoF's who are his people. He benefits from a large number of other coaches who work on and develop many areas of our game, and he benefits from a unique analytical system where we have a number of analysts feeding information to the bench that enables him to make better informed decisions. This analytical system is also employed as part of our scouting system that enables us to assess players on every aspect of their game. 

For all these points made, Brentford fans pretty much believe that we're in a great position to get in a manager that might make better use of our squad. Had Dean Smith stayed and failed to get us into the playoffs this season, he would seriously have underachieved. And the feeling is, like we sell players at the top of their value, we've let Dean Smith go at the top of his. 

Villa is a totally different animal to Brentford. Different expectations, different pressure, different squad with bigger egos, and my fear is that Brentford was the perfect fit for him and Villa will be a step too far. I hope not, because he's an incredibly genuine person, and he's incredibly likeable in person. Please give him time and I'm sure that for all the negatives/concerns I've mentioned, he will have gained more experience during his tenure at Brentford, so everything I've said might become totally irrelevant. 

It's also interesting to note that Brentford fans don't begrudge him his dream move. He leaves on excellent terms and with our best wishes. 

P.S. any questions, I'll happily try to answer them. Obviously it's a busy forum so I'll answer what I can when I can.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Stinglikeabee

[ciggiesnbeer]

7 minutes ago, Stinglikeabee said:

Into last season and the style of football had carried on from the end of the previous season and we looked great on the eye but the results were appalling.

Good post thanks. For this bit, tbh I am will take playing great looking football. I dont speak for even a minority of Villa fans, but my expectation is not immediate results, it is to have us play football which is at least mildly fun to watch.

[Keyblade]

3 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Good post thanks. For this bit, tbh I am will take playing great looking football. I dont speak for even a minority of Villa fans, but my expectation is not immediate results, it is to have us play football which is at least mildly fun to watch.

I'm of the opinion that if you play anything resembling great looking football with this squad, the rest should take care of itself. Smith might have limitations that might manifest later down the road, but I think he has what it takes to get this beast of a squad playing good football and winning games, and that's all we need at this point in time.

[Stinglikeabee]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I'm of the opinion that if you play anything resembling great looking football with this squad, the rest should take care of itself. Smith might have limitations that might manifest later down the road, but I think he has what it takes to get this beast of a squad playing good football and winning games, and that's all we need at this point in time.

Watching Bruce ball does appear to have scarred you lot!!!

[Thug]

9 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Good post thanks. For this bit, tbh I am will take playing great looking football. I dont speak for even a minority of Villa fans, but my expectation is not immediate results, it is to have us play football which is at least mildly fun to watch.

+1

 

I too would rather this than be ‘thereabouts’

[Spoony]

29 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Can we move past this myth that we played Brentford off the park this season? The oddity of playing a team off the park and scraping a stoppage time draw notwithstanding, Brentford had 90% of the gilt-edged chances in the game which were like 5 or 6 not even including the goals.

If there was ever a match that contrasted the tactical nous of the respective managers it was that one. We huffed and puffed and had the lion's share of possession, but Brentford were more than happy to accommodate that. While we were pumping crosses into the box (and creating half-chances), Brentford were cutting our defence open with their movement and their passing time and again especially in the second half.

It's one thing to have reservations on his tenure which I totally understand, but let's not disrespect a forward-thinking manager and his approach to the game by comparing him to our rigid, stuck-in-his-ways former incumbent, especially using a game where to the discerning eye, it was he who came out on top in football terms.

I said this at the time. If anything that was the end of Bruce for me. Yay lots of possession and barely any chances. It really showed there was no hope for us under him. 

[A'Villan]

@Stinglikeabee Welcome, and thanks for your post. Insightful.

I'd like to pick your brain to better gauge the history and what we might expect here.

While perfectly understandable and relatable to have such expectations, is it possible that hope has persuaded judgement and overlooked actual ability or merits in regard to obtaining a top 6 finish?

I do not watch Brentford play, so don't take this as me insinuating that I believe playoffs to be beyond your club. I am genuinely asking the question as I know from being a fan of this club, that the contrast between what is expected and what eventuates can be both disappointing and even confusing at times.

This is a competition, and margins are fine, even a club like Villa, with the playing personnel we have at our disposal, can find ourselves on the wrong end of results. All too easily.

Coming from the position of ignorance that I do regarding Brentford, I would of thought that the system and coaching that you employ be the cause of any promotion chances above the playing personnel at your disposal. I take it from your view I am mistaken in thinking that?

Saying that the football was aesthetically pleasing would suggest that management (Smith absolutely included in my view) had done a good job of integrating both methodology and personnel. The explanation for the poor results is literally a multi-million dollar question, isn't it? I would appreciate you expanding on what your understanding of what caused your team to forfeit the points that should've been achieved.

For us, it was quite clearly a lack of adaptability and appropriate preparation from Bruce. We had players of elite calibre for the division throughout our squad, some of whom would not even make the match day squad such was our depth. We were so desperately reliant on the superiority of individual skills and bravado. Apparently we spent more than Brentford had in their entire 127 year history the season before, and we have only continued to add to that.

Edens (one of our owners) at another sports club he owns, appointed a coach of only one years experience. This coach took that club from the worst ever record and a lowly ladder position to the playoffs in one full season in charge. He was then afforded 4 years from memory to push on and take things to the next level. So I am not as concerned for Smith as you are. Should he show the capability to achieve promotion within the timeframe the club can afford he will be backed.

My word, does he have the playing personnel at his disposal. Even our defense, which has been penetrated with ease time and again this season, boasts three players of premier league experience. As far as personnel goes that is our weak point. However our true fragility can be found in a lack of coordination as a unit. If Smith can remedy this I think he might enjoy some success with Villa. From what you have written in stating that the football was easy to watch, he can, as long as players cooperate and commit to his methods.

I understand that the data analytics you employ are able to identify players who are playing to a similar or higher standard currently possessed by your club but are from countries where the fee they command make them worthy investments for Brentford. That's the kind of ingenuity that will take you places from a financial and business perspective as well as adding talent to the footballing side of the club. Win-win really. Though I don't see how that negates the work of the head coach in assembling and preparing his team to play an effective brand of football. If anything the two are complementary and both testament to your club being on track to grow in performance and therefore stature. Like you say the expectation is playoffs and a chance at your first ever Premier League campaign.

How do these analytics assist Smith in his tactical approach? I would be very keen to understand this better. Do they really identify anything that the naked eye might not through observation? I imagine it might give concrete feedback on the tendencies of the opposition in a number of ways. But will Smith really be left at such a disadvantage without it?

Bit of an essay there for you, so thanks if you've taken the time to read through all that.

[Stinglikeabee]

31 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

@Stinglikeabee Welcome, and thanks for your post. Insightful.

I'd like to pick your brain to better gauge the history and what we might expect here.

While perfectly understandable and relatable to have such expectations, is it possible that hope has persuaded judgement and overlooked actual ability or merits in regard to obtaining a top 6 finish?

I do not watch Brentford play, so don't take this as me insinuating that I believe playoffs to be beyond your club. I am genuinely asking the question as I know from being a fan of this club, that the contrast between what is expected and what eventuates can be both disappointing and even confusing at times.

This is a competition, and margins are fine, even a club like Villa, with the playing personnel we have at our disposal, can find ourselves on the wrong end of results. All too easily.

Coming from the position of ignorance that I do regarding Brentford, I would of thought that the system and coaching that you employ be the cause of any promotion chances above the playing personnel at your disposal. I take it from your view I am mistaken in thinking that?

Saying that the football was aesthetically pleasing would suggest that management (Smith absolutely included in my view) had done a good job of integrating both methodology and personnel. The explanation for the poor results is literally a multi-million dollar question, isn't it? I would appreciate you expanding on what your understanding of what caused your team to forfeit the points that should've been achieved.

For us, it was quite clearly a lack of adaptability and appropriate preparation from Bruce. We had players of elite calibre for the division throughout our squad, some of whom would not even make the match day squad such was our depth. We were so desperately reliant on the superiority of individual skills and bravado. Apparently we spent more than Brentford had in their entire 127 year history the season before, and we have only continued to add to that.

Edens (one of our owners) at another sports club he owns, appointed a coach of only one years experience. This coach took that club from the worst ever record and a lowly ladder position to the playoffs in one full season in charge. He was then afforded 4 years from memory to push on and take things to the next level. So I am not as concerned for Smith as you are. Should he show the capability to achieve promotion within the timeframe the club can afford he will be backed.

My word, does he have the playing personnel at his disposal. Even our defense, which has been penetrated with ease time and again this season, boasts three players of premier league experience. As far as personnel goes that is our weak point. However our true fragility can be found in a lack of coordination as a unit. If Smith can remedy this I think he might enjoy some success with Villa. From what you have written in stating that the football was easy to watch, he can, as long as players cooperate and commit to his methods.

I understand that the data analytics you employ are able to identify players who are playing to a similar or higher standard currently possessed by your club but are from countries where the fee they command make them worthy investments for Brentford. That's the kind of ingenuity that will take you places from a financial and business perspective as well as adding talent to the footballing side of the club. Win-win really. Though I don't see how that negates the work of the head coach in assembling and preparing his team to play an effective brand of football. If anything the two are complementary and both testament to your club being on track to grow in performance and therefore stature. Like you say the expectation is playoffs and a chance at your first ever Premier League campaign.

How do these analytics assist Smith in his tactical approach? I would be very keen to understand this better. Do they really identify anything that the naked eye might not through observation? I imagine it might give concrete feedback on the tendencies of the opposition in a number of ways. But will Smith really be left at such a disadvantage without it?

Bit of an essay there for you, so thanks if you've taken the time to read through all that.

Lol. Pretty much as long as my post.

I'll try to answer in the best way possible.

Brentford believe that has we invested in our fragile squad in January 2015, we might have gone on to get promotion. It was rejected by Warburton (we had a different setup at that time) and he and our owner fell out. Our squad was running on empty by the time we played Middlesbrough and we lost in the play-offs, having played great football with a small squad.

The strategy was to improve on the entire squad and keep Brentford playing attractive football in the hope that we might reach similar levels. The first season after the play-offs, we were far away from the standards required, the second season also, but last season, we had assembled the strongest squad we had ever seen coupled with the brand of football we were playing, expectations had risen. It is my opinion that we failed to make the most of that squad, as having watched Championship football for the last few years, I think I can recognise a true challenger and the ones that won't. Last season, Brentford should have challenged. This season, I'm going to be really irritated if we don't make the play-offs. Our methods, systems, analytics, scouting methods, mean that we can compete on a much more level playing field than if we hadn't employed such methods. Our squad and sales of players in the last few seasons speak for themselves. We have, on merit, established a reputation for being a quality footballing side, recruiting young athletic players who are comfortable on the ball (as recently recognised by Bielsa who sung our praises last week), and whilst we lack a bit of experience to challenge for automatic spots, I think we're good for play-offs. All this and we're constantly rebuilding our squad, improving it, whilst players depart. Pretty amazing in my opinion, as most clubs our size lose players and crumble.

I don't doubt for a second that Dean, having been a cog in the Brentford machine, was rather a large cog. I'm not disputing many of the good things he did for us. The footballing philosophy partly comes from the top though. It's instilled into the B team and, when we had an academy, all other age groups. That's why we've been able to promote players from within and invest in young players who might not get a chance in bigger clubs. Dean then coaches the team but obviously has a huge influence on daily and matchday matters as he's the one ultimately responsible. He's renowned for bringing the young players through, inspiring confidence in them, but he's not so renowned for his overall setup of the team for teams that "have figured us out". There seems to be a distinct lack of a plan B if our footballing style doesn't work as effectively, and I'd say that we struggle to grind results out. Put it this way, we don't tend to win ugly. And that's what costs us points. 

In some ways, with Villa being a different setup with a squad that has experience at a higher level, that might work to his advantage. Our squad deficiencies are different to yours, and let's see how Dean sets up your team to suit his style. As I said, he had a pretty good squad when he first came to us, not as good as now, but I was surprised that despite the reputation that he had built at Walsall, we were playing direct football for most of the first year he was with us. 

With regards to our scouting, recruitment and analytics. It's massively overlooked by our DoF's, not the coaches. The head coach gives them a brief and they regularly discuss players, but the DoF's then draw up a shortlist and then go for the players. In fact, a number of our signings have remarked at how impressed that we had been tracking them for years. We recruit young British players, and young Europeans. We offer young promising players something that a lot of bigger clubs cannot, and that's regular first team football, playing a style of football that we already know suits them. On negotiating with players, they are shown a presentation of themselves and hope they fit into the Brentford way, where they are told things about their game that they hadn't realised themselves. We also offer them no restrictions in movement should we get the right offer for them, and therefore we tend to sign some extremely promising players. And that's amazing thing. Our owner's very secretive analytics, coupled with an extensive scouting network that covers every league in Europe, means that we see things like, for example, how a winger performs in front of large crowds, under pressure against two defenders, in a team that tends to dominate possession, against a left footed defender who is short and quick, in the "danger" area of the wing. Stats like these are compiled and analysed to demonstrate consistencies within players, how that fits in with our style of football, and areas of improvement that require coaching. There's actually a lot more than that, including mental attributes, but that's about as much information as us fans can work out! 

So, why is this relevant to your question? Well, it's a unique system that Villa doesn't have. Smith knew that he was getting what he asked for and the real challenges have been getting players to adjust to language, if they're foreign, so that they can truly understand the style. 

The other aspect that I need to clarify for you as best as I can, is the matchday analytics. As our owner has based his entire fortune on analytics in sport, it's employed on matchdays to feedback information to the bench so they can make informed decisions from different viewpoints. Truthfully, bring on the bench means you only see one perspective of the game. From different angles and much higher up positions, is possible to see other things. That data is collected and provided to the coaching team at half time so that they can decide whether to make any changes. Obviously it's all used post match too.

That said, the way I've talked it up makes it sound like we ought to be in the Premier League by now. But we're a club with a ground capacity of 12,000, no corporate facilities, and we still lose money every week. Our losses are partly negated by our profit we make from player sales and from owner investment to fund our losses. 

Anyway, hope that answers some of your questions. 

[A'Villan]

5 hours ago, abdomlahor said:

 

Not sure if this has been posted or not but it gives a little insight into his coaching methods.

Watched this in full.

To give it some context the coaches that are asking questions are of an introductory level and the answers given are not about the intricacies and details of how professional football clubs are run. They are designed to give some feedback to these novice coaches on how someone with a wealth of experience in the game like Smith has done things or what he thinks.

What it does offer is some insight into the personality of both Smith and O'Kelly.

My favourite question and answer was the one on the use of futsal in development. Smith answers that its effective in enhancing technique among other aspects. Then he says basketball is best because you always play with your head up. So true. I am 23 years deep into my basketball journey and peripheral vision is of the highest importance. I have never played 11-a-side football but I play Division One futsal and what Smith says is so true and has transferred into my futsal game. When I am on the ball, whether I am chopping it between feet, making a Cruyff turn, or a bait and take, whatever move I'm trying to make to create some space or beat an opponent, my head is always up, which allows me that extra focus on where I can play a pass or that extra split second to better place my shot.

Good on Smith and O'Kelly for doing this though. Grassroots is where it all starts.

I did my level one coaching badges under Trevor Gleeson and while the content was very basic having someone who's experienced the highest level the country has to offer is great to have around and shows the novice coach that the Pro was once at that stage in their journey too.

[pacbuddies]

9 hours ago, hippo said:

If thats true wouldn't Garde have gone onto better things  ? - and end of season flurry saved his job at Montreal impact.

Of course it's true. Which bit is false? What's going on to better things got to do with how he was treated at AVFC?

[villan_007]

6 hours ago, Stinglikeabee said:

 

Got to be honest fella,  your post doesn't fill me with confidence. It seems deep down you're more than happy for him to leave.

Hopefully he has improved again from the lessons he has learnt which he seems to have done everywhere he's been.

I'm still a little unsure on him to be honest. Having said that it will be nice to not have to sit and watch hit and hope football every week.

[NoCoder]

2 hours ago, A'Villan said:

Watched this in full.

To give it some context the coaches that are asking questions are of an introductory level and the answers given are not about the intricacies and details of how professional football clubs are run. They are designed to give some feedback to these novice coaches on how someone with a wealth of experience in the game like Smith has done things or what he thinks.

What it does offer is some insight into the personality of both Smith and O'Kelly.

My favourite question and answer was the one on the use of futsal in development. Smith answers that its effective in enhancing technique among other aspects. Then he says basketball is best because you always play with your head up. So true. I am 23 years deep into my basketball journey and peripheral vision is of the highest importance. I have never played 11-a-side football but I play Division One futsal and what Smith says is so true and has transferred into my futsal game. When I am on the ball, whether I am chopping it between feet, making a Cruyff turn, or a bait and take, whatever move I'm trying to make to create some space or beat an opponent, my head is always up, which allows me that extra focus on where I can play a pass or that extra split second to better place my shot.

Good on Smith and O'Kelly for doing this though. Grassroots is where it all starts.

I did my level one coaching badges under Trevor Gleeson and while the content was very basic having someone who's experienced the highest level the country has to offer is great to have around and shows the novice coach that the Pro was once at that stage in their journey too.

Great point on the Futsal question. I'm a massive basketball junkie and all my kids play. I have one playing football and another also playing AFL, and it has helped massively in their 360 degree awareness.

Both Smith and O'Kelly seem like very genuine and down to earth people.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Read in a Smith interview that one of the main things he looks at in a player is his attitude. 

So hopefully the days of signing the likes of Lescott and McCormack are in the past.