Popular Post nick76 Posted October 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 minute ago, PussEKatt said: How about Brighton bieng above us,thats a worse look IMHO. I don’t understand? Last season I was told we had to be above Leeds that was the goal, we are now 3 points and 4 places above them…..Smith is a genius! It was BS then about Leeds and it’s BS now re Brighton. We have to focus on us…others teams will have bad times and others will have good times. I couldn’t care less if Brighton finished 7th and us 8th, it would be only about us just like us being 16th and Man U being 17th I wouldn’t rejoice about being above them. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 I really think that DS is at the limit of his ability.Dont forget that he only managed Barnsley and Brentford before us,so asking/expecting him to get us into the top 6/8 is a bit much ( dont you all think ? )also,as good/great as a person that he might be,if he has reached his limit then we should be looking for someone to take us to the next step. I am not running DS down,I just think that he has taken us as far as he is capable,no shame in that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Woody1000 Posted October 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: I really think that DS is at the limit of his ability.Dont forget that he only managed Barnsley and Brentford before us,so asking/expecting him to get us into the top 6/8 is a bit much ( dont you all think ? )also,as good/great as a person that he might be,if he has reached his limit then we should be looking for someone to take us to the next step. I am not running DS down,I just think that he has taken us as far as he is capable,no shame in that. You’re right, he did absolutely nothing of note at Barnsley, in fact he did nothing! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 2 hours ago, useless said: People are trying to come across as if they aren't overreacting to the three defeats but that's exactly what's happening, after we beat Man Utd hardly anyone was talking about us not being able to win without Grealish, we were eighth in the table four points off the top of the table and had just won two games without him against two decent sides, also hardly anyone was talking about the style of play... And guess what if we hadn't have lost those three games then other than a few expections no one would be talking about those things now, and no would be talking about replacing Smith or him not being good enough. So the point you are making is that if we had won these last 3 very winnable games instead of losing them people would be happy. I'm not advocating for Smith out, partly because there is still time this season for him to sort this **** out and partly because there is no one who is clearly a better manager available to replace him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 37 minutes ago, nick76 said: I don’t understand? Last season I was told we had to be above Leeds that was the goal, we are now 3 points and 4 places above them…..Smith is a genius! It was BS then about Leeds and it’s BS now re Brighton. We have to focus on us…others teams will have bad times and others will have good times. I couldn’t care less if Brighton finished 7th and us 8th, it would be only about us just like us being 16th and Man U being 17th I wouldn’t rejoice about being above them. The year before that it was Wilder at Sheff U. It's like people can't comprehend other teams doing well. It must be a negative on us if a team over performs for a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 39 minutes ago, nick76 said: It was BS then about Leeds and it’s BS now re Brighton. We have to focus on us The league has 20 teams in it and our finishing position relative to the other teams determines our prize money (yes I know there are different names for different portions of it) and whether we qualify for Europe, stay in Premier League or get relegated. It is really important that we consider where other teams are and how they are performing, particularly so the group of teams that we are directly competing with for league position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 Nothing baffles me more than comparisons to other teams' positions in the league, good or bad as a means of appraising any manager, never mind Smith. We can't control other teams' results against one another so it's just an odd barometer. Brighton or Brentford having a stormer of a season and finishing top 8 doesn't reflect badly on Smith anymore than a Spurs or Everton having a shocker and finishing 14th reflects positively on him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 19 minutes ago, Woody1000 said: You’re right, he did absolutely nothing of note at Barnsley, in fact he did nothing! I think he may have meant Walsall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 Well there are people claiming that it's not about those three defeats when it clearly is, because before those three defeats hardly anyone was complaining about Smith, or our form without Greaish, or our form playing in front of crowds. The three defeats don't warrant the reaction that we've had, expressing concern that the bad form might continue is one thing, indeed if that dreaded scenario does come to pass then Smith will probably lose his job, but the bad run has only been three games, two of them away to Arsenal and Tottenham, Wolves aren't exacty an easy team either, we need to see how we do over a larger span of games before we decide that Smith isn't good enough... The next four games are important, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Indigo said: Nothing baffles me more than comparisons to other teams' positions in the league, good or bad as a means of appraising any manager, never mind Smith. We can't control other teams' results against one another so it's just an odd barometer. Brighton or Brentford having a stormer of a season and finishing top 8 doesn't reflect badly on Smith anymore than a Spurs or Everton having a shocker and finishing 14th reflects positively on him. At what stage is it fair to compare us to other teams. After all, the competition we participate in is between us and the other teams. The better we do in comparison to the other teams determines who wins the better prize 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 25 minutes ago, Woody1000 said: You’re right, he did absolutely nothing of note at Barnsley, in fact he did nothing! Are you sure he wasn't " laying out cones " part time? Under the table contract? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) Whilst I am not happy with the team atm, at this point in the season I would only seriously consider Smith to be sacked if we were in the bottom 3 at this point in the season and we're currently pretty far from that. Hell, we probably still wouldn't drop into the relegation zone even if we lost all 3 of our next games. I think ideally all teams should be ruthless but at the same time patient with their managers. Don't let prior sentiment cloud judgement and sack managers when they've seriously underperformed but also give them time to reach the goals they've been set. 9 games is not nothing, but its not much either. Plenty of time for things to be turned around. Edited October 25, 2021 by Laughable Chimp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: At what stage is it fair to compare us to other teams. After all, the competition we participate in is between us and the other teams. The better we do in comparison to the other teams determines who wins the better prize True. There are reasons why, Brendan Rodgers for example, would widely be accepted as a better manager than OLE, even though and if Manchester United finish higher . I feel like on both sides of the aisle, we can move goalposts to suit our narrative. Fact is, a manager will be rated on performance × available resources × mitigating circumstances etc. People hate the mention of the likes of Brighton because it genuinely is a great example of a well managed club with inferior resources. I'm not saying it is the be all, end all and should necessarily strengthen or weaken an argument against DS, but it's a very valid example. The easiest thing to do is flip back to Leeds last season, and Sheffield United the season before to rubbish arguments. However Brighton, whether people want to accept it or not, have been progressing steadily. The results might not have reflected as much, but viewing their performances was evidence enough of a well coached side over the past couple seasons. They now seem to potentially be bringing all the elements together. Obviously it's very early days and it 10 games the whole league could look different. We could also go on a powerful winning run ourselves, but would this be purely down to coaching, the talent we have at our disposal, or a combination of all? That's the trick question IMO. We have the talent to be better in my opinion, and again, it's still very early days. Getting the balance right is all we need to do. ( Preferably with a fully fit squad obviously ) Edited October 25, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: At what stage is it fair to compare us to other teams. After all, the competition we participate in is between us and the other teams. The better we do in comparison to the other teams determines who wins the better prize Indeed, the point I'm making is that narrowing the scope of that comparison to a single team is quite myopic though isn't it. Is it a "bad look" to finish below Brighton if each team has a good season? It makes about as much sense as me coming back here in May in the event we finish 15th, but above a 16th place Everton and calling it a good look. Such specific comparisons only seek to remove context, whatever side they're made from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 I think our owners will be ruthless and sack Smith if the poor form continues - and maybe sooner than some might imagine or even desire - especially as we have some favorable fixtures coming up. But the point is that just because we've just lost three games in a row, that doesn't mean to say that that form is going to continue, as form changes, just like last season when we won four games in a row that didn't mean we were going to go on and keep winning games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 I wouldn’t be surprised if we win the next 2. Momentum can change quickly in football. Change the shape, Bailey starts, home advantage for next one, a bit of luck. Before you know it we’re all happy going in to next international break. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Indigo said: Indeed, the point I'm making is that narrowing the scope of that comparison to a single team is quite myopic though isn't it. Is it a "bad look" to finish below Brighton if each team has a good season? It makes about as much sense as me coming back here in May in the event we finish 15th, but above a 16th place Everton and calling it a good look. Such specific comparisons only seek to remove context, whatever side they're made from. I agree that it can be myopic to compare to a single team and we do have to be carful with comparisons as each club will have a different set of influencing factors. However, we all know what is a fair comparison or not. Silly to compare Villa to Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Man United as they are way ahead of us. But yes there will be anomalies. Yesterday, was a prime example. Man Utd have a squad of players far far better than the performance yesterday. Equally we should not compare ourselves to Norwich as they just are happy to yoyo and collect PL money every alternative season. However, there are a group of teams that it is fair to compare Villa to. I would say it is fair to compare us to Everton and West Ham but I am sure others will disagree. But if we drop down the league a bit do we compare ourselves to Brighton, Saints and Palace? Brentford shouldn't be on the comparison list and imo we should be miles ahead of them in the PL. The discourse on VT will not let us compare Villa to any other team if it in any way reflects poorly on Dean and we just get a long list of mitigating factors (excuses) as to why Villa can't be expected to do reach a level of performance which imo we should absolutely be delivering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I wouldn’t be surprised if we win the next 2. Momentum can change quickly in football. Change the shape, Bailey starts, home advantage for next one, a bit of luck. Before you know it we’re all happy going in to next international break. 100%. The flap everyone gets into on here is always comical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 43 minutes ago, Woody1000 said: You’re right, he did absolutely nothing of note at Barnsley, in fact he did nothing! Typical of the anti-Smith nonsense we get on this site. He didn't put a foot wrong at Barnsley and now you are slagging him off for it. You'll be wanting him sacked next. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I wouldn’t be surprised if we win the next 2. Momentum can change quickly in football. Change the shape, Bailey starts, home advantage for next one, a bit of luck. Before you know it we’re all happy going in to next international break. Probably need to add to that: make sure the whole team have learnt the principles and practice of game management and closing down the other team when you are ahead. Gonna be a busy couple of days for the coaching team! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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